On the basis that he doesn't *need* 4 feeds a night, what do I do with him when he wakes?

[MrsHD]

Hello >yawn<

I have a very big 16 week old: he's 18lbs, EBF, not weaned at all yet (I know he shouldn't be, I'm just making that clear). I don't expect him to sleep through, but for the last 3 weeks or so he's been waking 3-4 times a night and frantic for a feed each time. It's been complicated by a tooth - yes, a tooth - sprouting on Sunday so I expect him to be less settled at night, but tbh it's hard to spot the difference. This morning I felt like the (only just) living dead. I can't do this any more. I'm up every 2 hours all night and my skin, not great at the best of times, is now disintegrating and I'm back on prescription creams.

Surely Max doesn't actually need a feed every 2 hours all night? He used to go 5-6 hours for his first long stretch of sleep, but that is a distant dream. Last night I fed at 11.30 (he'd gone 4 hours from going down, which is an improvement), 2.30, 5am and 7.15, feeding for around half an hour each time. He looks shattered today and is currently complaining about going down for a nap. We both need him to sleep longer.

On the basis that it's not unreasonable to expect him to go 4 hours between feeds (feeding at say roughly midnight and 4am, that sort of thing), what on earth do I do with him when he wakes and, as far as he's concerned, needs a feed? DH is lovely in many respects but with a knackered back and shoulder doesn't do getting up in the night as it takes him about half an hour to get up from the horizontal and he can't hold Max for long before his shoulder pops out, so I will be doing this.

FWIW, Max feeds every 90-120 minutes in the day so a voracious feeder day and night. How do I go about dissuading him from feeding so frequently at night without making everything 10 times worse?

no answers but sympathy. ds1 fed 2 hourly until i turned the taps off at 10 months. from that point he slept through... he was a chunky chap as well, 16lb at 11 weeks.

we tried a lot of things - trying to settle without lifting (just reassurance) offering water instead, ignoring (), dh trying to bottle feed (this was defintiely not going to work as plastic near his face threw him into apoplexy lol)

i'm sure someone will be along to offer something sensible, but ds1 was one for getting his own way lol. (actually, still is, and he's 7 now...)

just wanted to say i understand the no sleep thing. horrid. x

Well, we'll see how it goes. If he absolutely, definitely needs food all night then he does and I will go with it, I don't want to break his will, but I will try some gentle discouragement over the next 2-3 nights and see if it seems to be having some effect. Just the two feeds a night would be acceptable!

16 weeks and thereabouts is a classic growth spurt age - I think there is still a thread going on here somewhere about 4-5 month sleep regression. They all tend to go a bit bonkers around this age. If you Google it, you'll get millions of hits.

I know this isn't what you want to hear...but you might have to just ride it out for a while. If he is having a growth spurt and is hungry, little else will get him back to sleep. Good luck, having been there - you have my sympathies.

Is he eating enough during the day, eg sometimes as they get older they don't feed for as long or as frequently as they're to busy looking elsewhere so he may be waking at night to eat.

Also could he be sleeping too much during the day and needing less at night?

I had a similar problem when my LO was younger and EBF. Not feeding for as long as your LO but just as often. I spoke to our breast feeding nurse at a support group and she advised me to change my diet temporarily and fill myself full of energy food like pasta to get more nutrition into my milk. I didnt need to try it as dd sorted herself out in time but i know how desperate you can become and it may be worth a try. Also a good reason for eating more!!!!!

Thanks everyone I had wondered about his daytime food intake. He feeds frequently in the day, but I'm going to encourage him to take both sides and have a really good tuck-in. Also I never used to offer both sides at night, would just pop him back in his cot when he zapped out after the first side, but last night I offered both sides at 10.00 and he slept til 2.40, biiig improvement, then both sides again at 2.40 and he slept til gone 8am, so a dramatically better night. Can't be sure it was offering both sides, but let's just say that will be policy in future!

In the daytime he has 3 or 4 naps, on average 45 mins but can be a bit longer if in the car or shorter if it's just one of they days. I don't think this is too much for 16 weeks, esp as he is yawning and rubbing face/ears when he goes down, I think he needs it.

I'm eating for Britain, btw, no shortage of nutrition!

i had a similar problem, but i decided that a quick feed and back to bed was much less hassle than the alternative of getting out of bed and rocking for ages. she just gradually went longer between feeds of her own accord, although at 8 months probably feeds more in the night than you want to hear about . i do sympathise though as i remember how hard it was

You must be exhausted with all that night waking! But the development spurt thing could well be the culprit, and if it is, the frequent feeding and unsettled nights should calm down soon, although I couldn't put a time on it! If you can bring yourself to feed through it, knowing it'll come to an end, then you'll probably suddenly realise he's slept much better for a couple of nights in a week or so (or less, or more!).

MrsHD I'm in the same boat as you with my dd who is 6m and smallish but who feeds like its an Olympic sport. I asked MNetters for advice a couple of nights ago as my HV had suggested going cold turkey on the 2 hourly night feeds. One mum said she'd done that and it had taken 3 nights to break the pattern but another decided against it coz of other child in house.
I was gearing up for cold turkey but am getting a bit chicken on it. That said, i was very tired and emotional today because of sleep deprivation and am off to bed now. Tomorrow is another day, as Scarlett O'Hara said. Keep in touch!

My DS was doing the same thing, wanting quick feed every 2 -3 hours in the night, I knew he was doing it out of habit and not because he needed the food. We went cold turkey, the first night wasn't nice but not as bad as I thought it would be, the second night he woke three times (each time for about 2 -5 mins) and last night he woke once for about 10 mins. Will have to see how tonight goes!! Good luck

Hi again,

Last night was another 4-feeder and I am the living dead today. I'd love to go to bed at 7.30 too but with other children it's not feasible. am now thinking that maybe I should be a little more active in my discouragement of quite this quantity of feeding.

Last night I 'delatched' him when the active sucking stopped and the dozey 'mmm, this is nice' started. Yes it is nice in many ways, but maybe just the twice in the night! He gurned briefly then went back to sleep, but slept the same amount as if he'd gorged on both sides for 25 mins, so simple level of milk intake isn't the key. I suspect I'm being lazy just feeding him each time, as another poster said, as it's easier than what would be involved in settling him without feeding.

Given what was demonstrated last night with level of milk intake not dictating how long he sleeps, I think my tactic for now will be keeping the feeds as short as I can get away with (as he doesn't wake up any more frequently on a small feed) so that I prove to myself that he's not really hungry, and then when they're microscopic starting to drop them one by one. By then he'll probably be moving on of his own accord anyway.

I don't feel right about going cold turkey atm, esp as SS has GCSEs starting today so lots of screaming in the small hours isn't really on. Going back to the doc about DS' skin today and I know she'll beat me round the head for all that feeding. Can't remember if I posted here about it but a month ago (when things were considerably better, I might add!) she told me I shouldn't be feeding him at night at all, as he was a big boy and could manage without it, and it was actually BAD for him! I don't think I'll be able to look her in the eye this morning

There is this. I'm going to try it v. soon

hi just sympathising with you really. i have a 11 month old and had the same problem he fed every 1 and half hours. it felt like there was no light at the end of the tunnel but just like everyone told me it just happened he slept through all of a sudden. i was so happy. it didnt happen till he was about 6 months though. i also weaned him on 17 weeks because he just wasnt happy with his milk. this made a big difference with his sleeping. i hope you have some success soon and just ignore the lectures you get about overfeeding. you sound like your doing a good job at being a mother.

My ds was exactly the same, I just pulled him into bed next to me and slept while feeding him, and he slept while drinking so although he was feeding most of the night, neither of us were short on sleep. Maybe this is something you could try?