Cot to bed advice for tree hugging, softly softly parents...

[Confuzzeled]

I posted last week about my 2yo dd having problems going from her cot to a bed.

It's her choice, she no longer wants to sleep in her cot and gets super upset if I put her anywhere near it.

She goes to sleep fine now in her bed, but wakes up around 2, gets really upset and won't go back to sleep. I'm pregnant so I'm finding it hard sleeping next to her but I have been doing to make life easier for both of us.

When I posted last week I got advice about putting a stair gate on her door. This is something I just couldn't do. I think she's scared and leaving her to scream for hours only reinforces her fear and makes her feel abandoned.

So I'm wondering if anyone has any other ideas that may help us get a full nights sleep.

I'm not sure I have any great advice (my 2 year old has never slept through!) but I wondered if she has a nightlight?

It was me who said about putting the stair gate on the door, I do this for safety, so he can be in the room unsupervised, as our bathroom and bedroom isn't baby-proofed. I worried about him getting up in the night and wondering, while we were asleep.

Controlled crying isn't leaving her to cry for hours. You go in the first time she cries and say firmly, "it is time to sleep now, goodnight". The second time she cries you say, "It is sleep time now". After that, you go in and simply tuck her in, with no words at all. You can go in as often as every 30 seconds, or you could leave it 2 mintutes or 5 minutes, it's what you and your daughter can handle.

This reasures her that you will always come for her when she cries, she is not abandoned but sends a clear messege that she is going back to sleep and you will not give in.

It's hard work at first but it worked for DS.

I know some people think co-sleeping is great but I've only ever known it cause trouble.

I'm sorry I don't want to start a row - I know I said above that my 2 year old didn't slept through but I also coslept with DD1 who slept through from 21 months and is now one of the best sleepers I know. It doesn't cause trouble for everybody...even though many people think 21 months is appalling, it was fine for us (it is only a problem if it is a problem for you).

Agree with LPP - we too used stair gate for safety not as prison! Have always gone to dcs for proper sad crying/screaming but not for initial sob "i've woken up where are you?" type crying as 9/10 they will roll over and go back to sleep.

I know it's hard when you are pregnant but investment of a few nights settling dd now will reap benefits in future when she is a secure and happy sleeper. As LPP says just keep re-settling with no fuss - first night is the hardest but gets better each night until eventually they settle themselves.

I agree, do what works for you, it's just obvious that in this case co-sleeping isn't working is it? So try a new tact. I think she needs reasuring that she isn't 'abandoned' because her mum isn't in the same bed as her, she's just in a different room and that's ok, mum can still hear her and will come.

I get the feeling that controlled crying is seen as 'leaving your baby' but I think it reasures the child they are ok on their own sometimes, their bedroom is a safe place to be alone and if you cry, mummy will come, she just won't answer your every beck and call.

There is a blue light on her monitor. Anything brighter than this wakes her up but that was when she was in her cot. Maybe I'll try her nightlight now she's in the bed and maybe she won't get scared, good thinking.

My dd only started sleeping through in her cot a couple of months ago and even that was sporadic. She has been a problem sleeper since she was born and will physically hurt herself to stay awake. By that I mean, she'll hit herself in the face, bang her head against the cot or wall, poke herself in the eyes, pull her hair, scratch herself, bite her fingers...etc. I went to HV's a whole number of times and they told me she'd grow out of it. I bought numerous books because I was so desperate but in the end the only one that helped was the no cry sleep solution and that was tiny changes at a slow pace.

I never co-slept in my own bed and only in her room when she was ill or had night terrors.

I tried cc for 5 nights and she only slept when she became so exhausted she couldn't stay awake any more.

I don't go through to her room unless it's proper crying/screaming or if she gets up and comes into my room. Her breathing gets so short she's obviously panicking.

I probably should have written this all in my first post but I just wanted some basic suggestions without scaring anyone with my sleep monster

5 nights isn't very long to try it (I know it feels like a year without sleep, I've been there) but she does sound quite extreme. If you've tried all you can and she is hurting herself I think you should go to your GP and put your foot down. You need help and support to sort this out.

If they say she will grow out of it tell them what you just told us. She's not growing out of it, your not coping with it and she is hurting herself. If they don't help you they are crap, go to another GP.

Do you have a SureStart near you? They could also help you out.

But try not to worry. No one has ever died of panicking. She may cry herself to sleep and be exhausted but is that really that bad or will she stop after a few nights?

I beleive she will grow out of it but I would go back to the GP about her hurting herself, they may have a few tactics for discouraging it. How do you react when she hurts herself? I know what I would do - jump to her side, make sure she was ok, stay so she doesn't do it again....but all this makes a big fuss and will probably end up encouraging her to do it again and again for the attention, it's a way of keeping you there.

DS used to pretend he was choking . So everytime he did I rushed to him, scooped him up, made a fuss. Of course I couldn't ignore it because he might actually be choking so I had to force myself to pretend to ignore it IYSWIM, but I was watching out of the corner of my eye.

One of my hv's was a big fan of cc she helped me work out a schedule and plan for how we would do it. She was really sweet and called me every couple of days to check on progress. DD wasn't making any changes in her sleep behavior and as a result her behavior towards hurting herself to stay awake and panicking was getting worse. It also disrupted her daytime sleeping (she was about 12 months at the time) and she became so clingy to me I couldn't not be touching her at any point during the day. My hv told me to stop and said she didn't think cc would work on my dd because she had more complex sleep issues Anyway my doctor didn't think it had anything to do with him and at the time I was seeking help for my pnd which he thought my dd could be picking up on and effecting her behavior.

At first I used to try and stop her hurting herself but I was worried she would do it for attention so now I ignore her. I don't think she's doing it for attention, I think she really doesn't want to go to sleep.

She has pretty much stopped hurting herself now and only does it when she gets over tired. Last night before bed she did it because my Mum was here and she wanted to stay up with her longer. But not badly, just sticking her fingers in her ears and pulling her fingers.

I don't want to go back the way so I want subtle things to help her transition to a bed rather than going for a stair gate or being too stern. I'm not a walkover with her for anything else, I'm pretty strict when it comes to day to day life and we have a routine etc...

It's a tough one.

I would definatly go back to your HV. If she has more complex sleep issues, she needs another solution.

Confuzzled, I really really feel for you, sounds horrible. Poor dd and you!

You say you had PND and tried CC, do you think dd just needs to reconnect with you for a bit. Go with what she wants and cuddle her, let her sleep in your bed if you all get better sleep. Btw I am def not a walkover, dd has great manners and behaves well BUT we do allow her to sleep with us if she needs to, and trust her.

We moved dd into a bed at 15mths. To settle her in her own bed happily we played lots of daytime games where we tucked dolly into bed and then said 'night night' then came and found. Also 'pretending' to go to sleep. So she got used to idea.

Thanks Umlellala (your name is a mouthful even to spell )

I did have PND and got amazing support and counselling from the Post Natal Depression Project. I was on anti-d's for 8 months and came off them October past. Since I've been pregnant I've talked to my midwife about those feelings slipping back and I think I'm in control at the moment. I think the biggest issue with my pnd was the lack of sleep so I know to make sure I'm getting enough rest, dh is really supportive.

My dd has never slept in our bed because my dh is a bit of a bear and I'm scared he'd roll over and squish her. I have a policy of 3 strikes, I try and get her back to sleep 2 times and if she gets up a 3rd time I get into bed with her. On most occasions in her cot she would go back to sleep but since she's been in the bed she really won't go back to sleep without cuddles.

I love the idea of games in bed. She play pretends to go to bed with her teddies quite often and I think thats why she wanted to go to sleep there in the first place. I have followed her lead in this and want to be supportive without letting her treat me like a teddy.

I have night light on tonight and we went out and bought new bed sheets today that she chose. She helped me wash and tumble them, then she helped me put them on the bed. So I'm hoping all this helps.

I have my fingers crossed

I'm not sure how pregnant you are, but just wanted to say that you should try not to see your due date as a deadline looming over you as a time you need to get your DD sleeping through.

DS was 21 months when I got pg with DD and was not sleeping through, he used to come in with us after the first night waking as we decided that this was the best way for us to get some sleep - that and he would scream for hours on end when we tried cc. He suddenly started sleeping through of his own accord around his second birthday. It was easier for him to sleep in our bed than for me to try and get in with him in his cotbed!

It sounds like you're doing a great job to make this a gentle transition for your dd - hope tonight is a good one for you

Thanks RhinestoneCowgirl,

My dh thinks it's important for her to be sleeping through by August when I'm due. But I'm just taking it as it comes. When we first had dd I expected her to be sleeping for longer that an hour at a time by the time she was 6 months. I was sorely disappointed so I've given up on timescales and I just want to make things easy for us all. The new baby will be a big deal for dd so I expect it'll disrupt any sleep pattern she has developed by then anyway.

I hope with every cell in my body that lo2 will like sleep more than dd. Or I may start using medised.....by drinking a whole bottle myself

Cheers for the support.

She sounds like my DS was, and I was heavily pregnant at the time too, so I know how uncomfrtable it is!

I'm nt a fan on CC in this sort of situation - it has its place, but IMHO a child who goes to bed perfectly happily but wakes up scared is not being 'naughty', and need reassurance.

Can you try cuddling / reassuring her without actually getting into bed with her? Perhaps after calming her initially you could sit on a chair in her room until she's asleep?

Can your DH help out here - will she settle for him?

I'm sure you've thought of all this already but just wanted to give some moral support and say that I wouldn't do CC for this either

For the record, I slept with DS a few times in his big bed - it was a proper single so not quite sok uncomfy! - and he sorted himself out within a week or so( ish, can't remember exactly), and he's fine now, just falls out occasionally!

You might find this helpful No Cry Sleep Solution which has lots of ideas for gently, gently approaches rather than one solution. We co-slept and 3 year old dd now sleeps all night in own bed. Went through a phase like yours last year when was preg and then miscarried. I think they sense a change and need some reassurance. Good luck.

Jojay, Thanks for your support, it's lovely to know I'm not alone. I hadn't actually tried cuddling her without getting into bed. I either do the back rub and shhhhhhhh or I get ito bed and flop around like a beached whale to get out because it's a single bed with a guard along one side. I might move the chair closer so I can just sit on it and she can still see me.

Dd loves her Daddy but not at bed time and not during the night. He tries to help but it's more hassle so he often does the early mornings and lets me sleep.

Quirkychick, I'm so sorry you miscarried, I've lost 2 myself and I know how heartbreaking it can be. Dd definitely knows there's a change and she looks at my big belly and says 'Baby?' like she knows it's in there but isn't really sure The No Cry Sleep Solution was my bible for a long time, it was the only book that helped with my dd. I packed it away in August when we moved and it's not made it back out again, I will search for it today.

Anyway.....to update. Last night dd woke up at 11pm coughing, she had a bit of a runny nose yesterday. I gave her a small drink of water rubbed her back and she went back to sleep. I put Upsy Daisy in the bed where I would sleep (she also has piglet who she couldn't sleep without) and put on the bunny day / night light. Not a peep till 6am, WOO HOO. At 6 she cam into our room and dh pulled her into bed with us. We gave her lots of praise for being a big girl and sleeping in her own room all night. Then she fell asleep for 20mins in my arms and we just got up. If she sleeps till 6am every day I'll be over the moon.

Oh wow, well done her (and you)!

Think you are doing all the right things, 2 is still so small really...

Well done both of you. We have often gone back to cuddling dd with me next to bed when she's been poorly/having bad dreams.

Sounds like you are doing really well. Hope all goes well with the pregnancy. Thanks for your message.

Well done both of you. Hope it continues to go well