Is anyone out there PRO controlled crying please????

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I have been advised by my HV to do controlled crying. My 6 mth old wakes every 45 mins sometimes more, somtimes less in the night. Having spent weeks ruling out all the usual things- hunger, cold, hot, dirty nappy, wind etc. we think he just wants us to go in and put the dummy in. He often sleeps without a dummy but in the night if we go into him when he starts crying and put the dummy in he goes straight back to sleep.
I would like to try controlled crying, but having done some research on mumsnet it seems everyone is very against this and seems to think it will have a lasting pyscological effect!
I would be grateful for some advice...

Sparkles, I really don't think anyone can talk with any certainty / authority about the 'long-term-effects' of CC. It's completely impossible to separate an event (in this case, a few nights of crying) from the wider context of the baby's life, its parents' life etc. You also have to take into account the 'effects' of long-term sleep deprivation (again, can't be proven or quantified). I think it's completely mad to believe that a baby who is otherwise much loved & cared for will have some unspecified 'long-term-effects' just because he/she cried for a few nights, especially when this then leads to better sleep for all. How could that ever be proven?! And also, just logically, it doesn't make sense to me that any one incident in the baby's life would have such a detrimental effect (unless it's hugely traumatic like a horrible accident etc). I think the so called effects of CC are largely a matter of belief. Many parents believe they don't want to do sleep training because they think it's not a good idea for their babies to let them cry with no response- or with little response. Perfectly valid opinion, in fact, I shared it for ages until sleep deprivation got so bad I felt I had no choice. What I'm saying is, it's basically a matter of opinion and not proven fact.

Don't agree at all with the folk who are saying wait til one year - because they will understand what you are doing more then. Will they Buxton, as Victoria Wood would say.

I did it at six months - in fact it wasn't cc it was cold turkey - and it worked within three nights. And therefore, I stopped having a nervous breakdown. Which was nice.

On the other hand, dd2 (now two) is completely barmy. But that's toddlers for you.

Thanks Maria

i didn't think there were any particular 'long term effects' ...... not that i'd ever heard of anyway!

Well i put DD2 (6.5 mths) in her sisters room last night (i put DD1 in with her brothers so not to disturb her and so i could use her bed) she went down at 9pm and woke at about 12 - which is normal - i left her to cry for a bit then went in to 'shh' her she cried on and off for about an hour then fell asleep until 6am

when she woke up this morning she gave me a wonderful smile and seems happier today as she's had more solid sleep

hopefully tonight she will need less settling

I tried it with ds2 - worked like a dream. I had the Ferber book and also Toddler Taming - I preferred Toddler Taming's approach (though almost identical) as it's written in a more supportive way. My ds is the most laid back chap you could meet. There is absolutely no way he was harmed by it.

I'd like opinions on whether or not 4 months is too young to do controlled crying.

Basically, putting her to bed lately has become hell. It used to take me 2+ hours up until she was about 5 weeks old and it feels like I'm back there again.
Uusally she has a fuss before she goes to sleep, but goes to sleep after a little reassurance from me. I'm determined to settle her without picking her up and feeding her (breastfeeding) as it ends up taking much longer and with more crying that a 5-30 minute winge.
But the past few evenings have been horrible.

My non-feeding comforting techniques are failing now, I've been back and forth trying to shush her, rock her, stroke her head, talk gently.. eventually I pick her up, feed her, put her down, she cries, I get frustrated and walk out crying myself, then go back and repeat.
The night before last I did a controlled crying thing, well I let her cry for two minutes, went in, tried to comfort, no luck, left it for four, went back and I managed to calm her to sleep.
Last night, that didn't work. Though I was all over the place with the times. I was in tears because I felt like a horrible mother, and after 2-3 hourly night feeds for 4 months and just two thirty minute (on a good day) naps, I NEED a couple of hours in the evening or I'm am going to go mad.

OH went out and bought a dummy for her last night. (I didn't want to use dummies) It settled her but I had to stand there holding it in her mouth. If I have to do that I might as well just let her comfort feed. Least I can sit comfortably then.

And now she's stopped her daytime naps. She crying upstairs in her crib now because I need to write this and I am getting angry.
I feel awful.

I think I just want some input on how awful it is to do this at 4 months, if it will traumatise her, if I am a horrible heartless mother, if there is any point. I don't know. I hate this.

It's harder because it has been better. She's been worse than this but I've got used to it being a bit easier so it seems harder now.

She cried herself to sleep. I don't know how long she was crying for (I wrote this in stages, heh)
I feel relieved but awful at the same time. This has turned more into a ramble than a question, sorry. Sorry to hijack the thread.

We did it with our then 4 month old, for the same reasons as you pretty much. She never slept in the day. We tried pick up/put down, shush/pat, rocking etc. None of them worked (& we did persevere for weeks doing the same thing). All they seemed to do was make her angrier & angrier, often spending so long doing each one, it'd then be time for a feed again & we'd have to start it all again. I was SO sleep deprived and had PND by then, that we had to do something drastic for fear of how i'd end up. Took us 3 nights, with me crying more than her i think. But it worked. She is now nearly 3 and a brilliant sleeper, we've never regretted it for a moment.
As a GP friend of mine said, if you lined up 100 20yr olds, you'd never know who was left to cry for a few minutes when they were wee babies. No exact evidence to show it harms them. And my DD is a happy, confident child, no effects from it except the perfect sleeping. My DS is now 13 wks old, & would do it again if we had to.
You need your sleep, she needs her sleep. DO NOT beat yourself up about it, that way madness lies.
Good luck whatever you decide to do xx

When my ds was a baby I suppose I didn't really like the idea of cc, but then again I never really needed to use it. He just grew out of feeding to sleep at about 11 mths and only used to wake up about once for a feed before that. After 12 mths he started sleeping through. My dd (9 mths) is a totally different kettle of fish. We didn't do anything differently, apart from her not having a dummy and she is a terrible sleeper, waking 5-6 times a night and needing bf to go back down again. After reaching my wits end after mths of this and after speaking to friends and my hv, I decided to try a form of cc which we are on day 4 of and tbh I have seen an improvement. Have never really left her on her own as she sleeps in her cot next to our bed but hv advised to not feed her if she wakes and just soothe and turn away, keep doing it until she falls asleep. First time took about 2 hrs but over the nights she has been waking later and later and the time taking to soothe has decreased. I am not really pro cc but I can definitely now see the benefits and why people may resort to it. My dd has seemed alot happier now she is sleeping better too.

with DS (my first) i had read all the attachment parenting, no cry solutuin books and was completely against controlled crying. even getting involved in debates on here about it. fast forward 2 years or so and i have actually done it with success with DD. DS co-slept and was night weaned off the breast at 15 months old as i was pregnant and knackered so DH slept in with him for few nights and that was that, i got my sleep back and DS was still happy. he then went into his own room and bed at 18 months when we moved house. we used to stay with him in his room for 5 mins or so but it wasnt a problem.

DD however was/is a very demanding baby. she co slept and was still waking 3 or 4 times a night to feed when she was 16 months old. i just thought it was what she needed but she was difficult to get to sleep also. she would only fall asleep if i was next to her in bed and when i moved to leave she would erupt and we had to start again. it would take me upto an hour to get her to sleep at night. this was manageable when DH was here but he went away in march and wont be home toll august and DS was left downstairs in front of the TV while i tried to get DD to sleep. this was not safe or ideal so i had to try something. after visiting my parents over easter and DD playing up on my last night there (just wouldnt stay asleep, ended up btinging her downstairs) my mum tried comforting her, which she was fine with until she saw me or heard me then she would tantrum. my mum got her to sleep that night which was hard for me as she did cry, although she was never alone, and it made me realise that she may have been having me on a bit. being on my own with the 2 DC i needed my sleep as the night wakings were affecting my moods etc which wasnt fair on either of them. so when i got back from my parents i put DD straight in her cot in her room and decided i had no option but to try cc. anyway i left her for 1 min, went in lifted her, waited till she was settled, then put her down and left for 2 mins, then 3 mins and she was asleep halfway into the 3 mins. it only took 2 nights and she was going to sleep on her own. now she asks to go to bed, asks to go in her cot, gives a kiss and i leave and she goes to sleep without a peep.

So i have had a turnaround really although DD was 17 m when i did it, i probably wouldnt have done it if she were under 1. i think i just knew it was time. if i had another baby i wouldnt automatically do CC, i would just see how things felt.

Familiarsting I just read your post on here and felt really for you. You sound like you are having a tough time. I haven't done CC but I did do a few things with my DS when he was 3/4 months old which helped him become a better sleeper and if you are interested I can e-mail you them, you can contact me via MN or you can make your profile available to be contacted. I really know how you feel as I was there a couple of months ago. Let me know

Thanks, caspercat, it's reassuring to hear that other people have done it and it's not lead to permanent psycological damage. She's still so young and it's awful leaving her to cry, but I did it the past two nights and it actually seems to shorten the total crying time and the crying doesn't seem quite so bad as when I'm constantly there trying to calm her, picking her up, rocking, feeding etc. I think she's the same in that it makes her angrier, after calming her by picking her up or feeding her, it's much worse when I try to put her back down again.
The first night was about 45 minutes of crying on and off, but last night it was much shorter and more like the short bedtime winge that it used to be. It's still really hard walking out leaving her, yet it sounds horrible, but it's like she's more willing to let me calm her down after going back in after two minutes. But boy is two minutes a long time.
I'd still prefere not to have to resort to it, so yes, ChocOrange, I welcome any tips you might have, thanks. (dunno if I did the available to contact thing, but I tried heh)

familiarsting I have sent you a message

My little boy will be 4months soon. He cannot get to sleep on his own, and everyday is spent dreading the time Im going to put him to sleep at nap times or night time. He cries unless rocked or fed. Naps only lasts 30-40mins but are needed as he gets very grumpy and cries unless he gets to sleep every 2hrs. He also cries a lot in the car when he's tired.

I would like to start CC. However he still feeds twice during the night, which I dont have a problem with at all, as I feel he's still too little to sleep through. During the night he's very easy to put back into his cot as he's so sleepy, especially after his feed. My dilemma is - is it possible to only do CC when I put him down at nap times and for the 7pm night, then not for the 2 feeding times during the night? or will it mess everything up and he'll be crying for nothing? Please help!

HeWontSleep: Yes, it is.
We did just that with dd1. No problems at all.

In fact, there is a study out there on CC on the basis of this 'dual intervention' method
(first settling in the evening, then weeks/months later night time settling).

Good luck and hope you get more shut-eye soon!

DaddyJ - thanks! I want to start it soon. How old was ur dd1? Do you think 4months may be too young? Cheers!

She was 4 months old and had settled into her routine sufficiently for us to give it a go.

From what you describe it might be worth a sustained (i.e 3-4 days) attempt but at this age there is so much happening it might not work.
Keep an open mind, as ever!

Every new mum should have this thread printed and stuck to their fridge. Blooming wonderful advice!

I think CC is a horrible practice on children. Have a look at this article from the guardian www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/apr/21/leaving-baby-to-cry-brain-development-damage
i know it s not easy to decide what to do when you get pregnant and dont want to loose that baby, but you have to know that being a mum is most of all the most beautiful a long term rewarding experience, although it also implies that you have to try to make a living around your child life, not the other way round.

I think sleep deprivation is extremely damaging and lack of sleep can be just as bad for the child as the parent, so if all else has been tried, then why not try a little CC? If you're only leaving the baby for a few minutes at a time, it's only really the time you would leave the LO crying if you suddenly needed to go to the loo or had to grab the laundry off the line before the heavens opened etc... which I expect most of us have had to do where leaving a baby crying for a few minutes is the only option.

I haven't needed to do CC as yet with my DD and I hope I don't have to, but I haven't ruled it out if it becomes necessary.

I think another poster pointed out that CC is different to "Cry It Out" where the baby is just left to cry themselves to sleep with no soothing etc. - and that, I agree, is tantamount to cruelty. But a few minutes of crying, then reassurance... well, I can't see that the amounts of cortisone produced from that would do any serious harm.

My opinion anyway, FWIW.

Sorry - haven't read all thread so don't know if anyone has already said this, but 2 tips:

1. If it's night feeding (rather than initial settling) which is the issue, try cutting back feeds first. With DD2 i cut back from both boobs, to about 4 mins from one boob at each waking, over the course of about 2 weeks, making changes every 3 nights. When i cut out the feeds altogether we had very little crying (5 mins it says in my diary).

She was quite a good sleeper generally, but still waking 2-3 times for feeds at 7 months when i did htis. Won't help everyone but worth considering before you start CC - even if to only reassure you that they aren't hungry. That's also why i personally would wait until solids are established - but i am counting down the nights until DS (who is a lousy sleeper) reaches 6 months!

1. for settling, i worked on going to sleep for naps first. Easier to deal with during the day than in the middle of the night, and then if you still have to CC at night at least you know that they CAN self settle.

HTH.

You've all persuaded me! My DS is 51/2 months old and was sleeping really well until he caught bronchilitis. And now we're back to square one. Sometimes he wakes every 1-2 hours and he really can't be hungry as he's on two/three mushy meals a day! The worst bit is when he's wide awake from 3-5am, not crying just chatting away - so any advice on that one!

Hi!

I love this thread! I've been toying with the idea of CC since the dreaded 4 month sleep regression kicked in. DS is now 5 1/2 months and is getting slowly better, but still waking on average 3 times a night and can't self settle at all- I have to feed him nearly to sleep and it can take ages sometimes! As a result he's often miserable and over tired in the day- not to mention me! So I'm desperately waiting till he turns 6 months...!!! Also, I can never go out in the evenings as no one else can settle him to sleep if he wakes up. I don't mind that at the moment, but I will soon!

Just a couple of questions though...

1. Do I have to do CC for daytime naps too for it to work properly at night?

1. He goes to bed at 7.30 and it seems ages to leave him till about 6am without a feed as he's used to one every 3-4 hours. Can I decide to hold out on him till, say, 4am? Or will that confuse him as he doesn't know the time? Or can I introduce a 10pm dream feed while doing CC?

I've ordered the 'Solving sleep probs' book so answers may be in there, but I'd appreciate your experienced views and ideas!!

Thanks

Sorry- that sounds like I'm really excited about leaving my poor baby to cry... which I'm absolutely not. I'll probably cry just as much as him if not more. However, the thought of some sleep...!

Also, surely it's good to teach babies to self settle? Poor thing gets so miserable and over tired sometimes, desperately rubbing his eyes, that i feel really bad for him. CC will help that, won't it?

I just got this via RSS - will crying cause brain damage?

i am doing it now. He wakes evey couple of hrs for food. Am on the second night and have done it for naps too. He smiles at me with the loveliest of smiles and thinks no worse of me when he wakes up.

Hes already down to crying for only 5 mins with one comfort. Last night was about 45 mins and he had no milk but then slept through til 7.30.

It works. Its stressful but it works. Your baby will thank you for it if he could. it means hes getting the sleep they need to develop and you are to function.

Good luck.

Interesting to see this thread again!

Given my post above, I thought I might add that I have had two bouts of CC with DD since I wrote it.

The first was when she was around 7 months and it was simply to encourage her to settle in her cot at bedtime. She had become increasingly unwilling to unlatch and go to sleep and had self-weaned from her dummy, preferring the real thing. Although I've done some co-sleeping with DD, it's far from ideal from the point of view of my own sleep, especially as DD will only really do it if she can stay latched on the whole time.

Anyway, after two days and a maximum of 25mins of intermittent protesting (DD never went into meltdown, thankfully) DD let me put her into her cot and fell asleep without a peep.
That was the result I wanted, so I didn't pursue overnight wakings at that point. However, the overnight wakings did decrease dramatically from 5-6 to 2-3 and then 1-2 a couple of months later.

DD began sleeping through without further intervention at 13 months.

However, the sleeping through remained intermittent and the overnight waking was getting more prolonged when it happened, so we did some more CC at almost 19 months.

Basically, DD was fully night-weaned (she'd only been after comfort feeds, in any case) and DH did any resettling, starting with 2 mins of waiting, then 5 then 7 etc. We only needed to do it three times in the course of a couple of weeks.

At 20 months, DD is now fully weaned, bedtime BF and all, and goes down fine at bedtime and now only wakes in the night if she has a genuine issue (illness or, for example, she was hot two nights ago - DH went into her and she basically told him she wanted a drink of water and her cardigan off, once he'd done that, she ASKED to be put back in her cot. Whereupon, she went straight back to sleep).

It was relatively untraumatic for all concerned, including DD who didn't cry all that much, mainly just called out a bit.

Once in a while we get an early waking (pre 06.00) where DD can't get back to sleep, but otherwise I would say doing a bit of CC has been largely effective and the whole family is better rested as a result.