Please help me, feeling very very down

[Alibabaandthe40bunnies]

I've no idea what I'm hoping to get from this - maybe advice, maybe just some sympathy! I don't even know if this is really the right place to post this..

DS is 8.5 months. I love him to bits but I'm really struggling at the moment. He is BF, and is still feeding during the night. Last night he went to bed at 7:30pm and he woke to be fed at 8:30pm, 11pm, 12:30am, 2:30am, 5am, and then woke for the day at 7am. From 12:30am he was in my bed because I just couldn't summon the energy to take him back to his own room. DH was in the spare room because he had a long drive today.

I'm ashamed to say that when he woke at 7am I fed him, and then went to the spare room and hid under the covers. DH came up about 15 mins later to find me there and DS in our bed. DS was fine but starting to get grumpy and he needed a change. DH sorted him out and then came to find me, and then I started crying because I feel like I'm letting him and DS down.
I'm worried about getting depressed, sometimes I can feel myself teetering on the edge of hysteria and I just want to hide in bed all day. I shouldn't feel this way, I have a lovely husband, a beautiful son and a lovely home to live in. I am so blessed in so many ways.
Things are difficult at the moment, I've had a huge falling out with one of my brothers which is really upsetting me, and things are very uncertain with DH's job at the moment. He would get redundancy money and we have savings but it's still a worry.

Sorry some of that has nothing to do with sleep - but it's the lack of sleep which is making me unable to deal with things I think.
How can I try and get DS to sleep more at night? He eats and feeds well during the day but then still needs all this milk during the night.

I would suggest that perhaps he's not being fulfilled enough with your mile anymore.

I've a 8.5 months old little boy too. He has an 8oz bottle at 7am, a porridge feed (made with 4oz) at 8.30, a sold lunch feed at 12 with a yoghurt, and a solid lunch feed with yoghurt at 4.30-5 and then his 8oz bottle before bed. If he wakes, it's very rare and only ever once between 7am and 6.30am.

Is your little boy on Solids too?

Yes he has solids.

Shreddies and some banana for breakfast
Egg on toast or chicken with pasta and veg for lunch (or similar), often followed by a yoghurt
For dinner he mostly has what we have - shepherd's pie, bolognaise, roast dinner, casserole etc.

Talk to your health visitor but it may be worth weaning him from the breast onto a formula for Hungrier Babies. Alternatively, you could try substituting the last feed before he goes to bed with a thicker formula but if his stomach is particularly sensitive it may disrupt him.

I feel for you, sleep deprivation and broken sleep is just awful.

Is he actually feeding for real when he wakes every time or just comfort sucking for a few minutes before falling asleep again?

That, Cyteen is the million dollar question. They say that the 'average' 8 month old, once established on 3 solid meals a day should get 20oz. If he's getting there of there abouts, you can sort of assume that these night time episodes were out of habit as opposed to hunger....

If he's just sucking for a few mins, I would be inclined to stop the demand feeding...

Oh dear Alibaba, you have my sympathy. My DD was exactly the same and I felt just like you did.

In the end I went to a sleep clinic (millpond) who told me that DD had learnt to go to sleep by bf and that was why she was waking so much. I think they were half right, but I also think she was hungry too.

We introduced supper (baby rice I think) and did the retreat sleep training method (personally dont like controlled crying, but I'm told it works). Took a little while, but did work.

And of course your allowed to feel pants. Months of disturbed sleep will do that. Sleep deprivation is used as a torture technique for good reason.

Talk to your health visitor or gp about it too.

Hope knowing your not alone helps too

Hi AliB, I really would talk to your hv. Tell her how you're feeling.
It sounds to me, if he's eating all that that he is waking from habit/enjoying your presence/wanting comfort however you want to think of it. I wouldn't stop bf, he will still be getting benefit of antibodies from you (more knowledgable people on the Bf/bf board can confirm this)
But you sound like you need sleep quite badly and your hv should be able to help you with this. In the meantime, get some naps in the day when he sleeps.
good luck

If it is comfort feeding, the No Cry Sleep Solution has some good ideas on how to change this sleep association...I used them on my DS to good effect

Sleep deprivation is torture - remember it is actually used as a form of torture. So, don't feel bad for feeling fed up and please don't feel that you are letting anyone down. You might be better off reducing your BF and giving him a bottle for his last feed. If you are not getting much sleep and are exhausted then chances are your milk will be watery - if you have mixed feelings about giving up BF then you could always express after you have fed him the bottle in order to keep your milk supply up. I remember feeling exactly the same with my dd2. I eventually rang the health visitor in tears and a good cry made me feel better. In hindsight (and please don't take this the wrong way) I can see now that I was too tired to think straight and make a logical plan and I was also being a martryr to BF. I know now that it is not the be all and end all of being a good mother. The fact of the matter is that no one is benefitting from you not getting any sleep, so at least if you switch to bottles then you coud get to bed early and your DH (or a nice friend/mum/neighbour) could give him his final feed then you could dive into bed, and get as much sleep as poss before he wakes up again. As Katelyn says this waking could just be habbit - so maybe just offer water in the dark at these feeds. Again get someone else to do it so he does not smell the milk on you. We had to put up with three nights of dd screaming for about forty mins then it all stopped, the cycle was broken and we all were happy. You have to remember at eight months he is not going to starve from not feeding through the night! Also, that there is a huge difference between MAKING him cry and LETTING him cry. Good luck and remember you are not alone - and this time will come to an end and be nothing more than an anecdote, but it is misery at the time all the same. XX

Should say that I didn't stop BF (carried on til dd was 15 mths), just stopped the night feeds/comfort sucks.

Agree with Cyteen too, the No cry sleep solution book is good, it was just I felt I needed a bit more support.

And also will say that with ds i am bf mainly but also giving ff to give me a break.. which would have helped with dd no end

He is feeding for real, he gulps and gulps and gulps. I don't think formula would help, and I'm not keen on using it.

I think I will offer more BF during the day and up his solids a little.

MrsJen I think I will go to the GP. I feel a bit daft, but me in this state is not fair on DH.

I was in just your position, with DS waking every couple of hours to bf. What worked dramatically well for me (at 8 months) was the Baby Whisperer (series of books) technique (specifically 'pick up put down') - there's lots of info on their website talkboards www.babywhisperer.com. You really need to read the details, but basically it's a method of teaching your baby to go back to sleep without intervention from you - but you don't leave them to cry alone, you are there with them. DS's sleep improved hugely after just a couple of nights, and he was sleeping through to 5am after a couple of weeks. And I didn't stop bf-ing during the day.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, you don't have to suffer! And honestly, it's not hunger that's waking him. As my sister said to me, if someone offered you £20 every time you woke up, you'd keep waking up, wouldn't you? And can your DS go for longer than 2 hours between feeds during the day?

The key thing with whatever technique you use, is to be consistent.

Good luck!

I also remembered another thing...

At 11mths I was getting a 10 hr stretch out of dd but she was still waking at 5am for a feed. We decided to give her water and after 2 days, with no crying or problems, she decided water was too boring to wake for and she started doing 12hrs straight. It felt like a miracle.

Alibaba: another thing - I was thinking about you when I woke up this morning, hope you read this - it's much much easier to do gentle sleep training at 8 months than later, e.g. at 12 months when they can stand up in the cot. Think of it as the first lesson you teach your child, how to sleep well.
x

Thanks for your messages everyone

We had a slightly better night last night - once DS had eventually gone to sleep! I think his teeth are more of a factor in this than we had thought, when I checked yesterday afternoon he had cut another one on the bottom as well as the top and I can see three more coming on the top.
He did wake then a couple of times but nowhere near as much the night before.

DH got up with him this morning so I've had a nice lie in and feel a bit more human.

Flimflam you are right - we do need to address this now before he gets more mobile.

"If you are not getting much sleep and are exhausted then chances are your milk will be watery" - just wanted to say that this is mot true. If exhaustion made milk watery then there is hardly a BF baby in the land who would not be starving to death!

I hope that teething was the cause and it will soon improve. It is probably worth investigating the ~NCSS or other ways of encouraging him to get back to sleep without BF, but in the meanwhile you are NOT letting anyone down. This is just what some - many - babies do. It is hard but it will get better, honest

I had a similar problem with DS1 we did the following:

First of all stopped all bf to get him to sleep at all in the first place. Then stopped all feeds at night (he woke up and would be upset but we would pat him till he went to sleep)

then left him to cry (many would disapprove I know but he was waking up about 6 times a night and I was going insane) He cried for ab out 20 minutes on the first night (well the third night really as the first two nights we tried to go and comfort him inbetween and taht made he really angry and made it worse)

the next night about 5 minutes and then he slept through. It changed my life and made me a much better mother.

TPL - I had missed that about watery milk. Probably a good job the way I was feeling yesterday!

noonki - we have toyed with the idea of just leaving him but we're a bit hesitant. I think DH and I need to discuss and make a plan for tonight - I feel that now is the time to try it while DH has got the long weekend off work!

I will update in the morning!

I know nothing about bf (but hoping to learn with DC3) anyhoo, my DS had a similar pattern to this and he was formula fed, so don't think that changing to formula will be a magic solution.

He was in with us from 12 months after he woke 21 times before midnight . That was my final straw. I have just got him in his bed and waking once for milk (sometimes twice) in the last month. He is 2.4.

I don't mean that to make you feel worse, I've been where you are and its bloody horrible. I wanted you to not lose confidence in your milk though, hence my post.

Things are much better. The last 2 nights DS has gone down at 8pm and slept until nearly 2am, and then slept again until 7/8am. He went down at 8pm tonight as well and so far no stirring.

Suwoo - I've seen a few posts from you saying you are wanting to BF your new baby. When are you due? Make sure you post for support when the time comes - having just seen your post about night feeds it will come as a shock to the system, but you will get through it.