Night 5 of night weaning! 13month old - Help anyone?

[FinalFurlong]

Would love anyones experiences on night weaning, as i am worried she is never going to actually sleep through!

so far we have managed to stop all BF's between 11pm and 6am. when DD was previously feeding every 2 hours all night. i feed her to sleep initially (its the only way) but when she wakes again past 11pm till 6 am i dont, (dr jay gordon style) but i thought this would start to make her sleep longer, but she just screams every few hours, and screams for longer than she did when i used to feed her back to sleep. so we are getting less sleep than previously.
will this get better, and she start to eventually sleep longer?? i am starting to loose my willpower.
we are offering water, which is angrily being refused.
we have a side along crib, so its sort of a co-sleep situation.

Any ideas would be greatfully recieved!

I read your post with interest as my DS is almost 13 months and still feeds frequently during the night and last night, I recall thinking in the wee small hours, that maybe I would start night weaning. Now I don't think I'll bother

That's the trouble with all these advice books IMO, they make it sound so simple but when you try to put it into practice its a different matter. I know I wouldn't have the willpower to see it through if he was screaming and would stick my boob in his mouth and drift off in to a lovely fuzzy sleep.

Good luck with it. Hopefully someone will be along soon who can help. I try to go with the idea that everything will sort itself out with time, though I heard recently of someone who still has to lie down with a 12 year old every night to get them to sleep

hi

i feel your pain!
we did it recently and last night ds (19 mo)slept from 830pm to 7am. bliss. he was also feeding 2 to 3 hourly before that!

He was feeding for 15 - 20 mins each time, sometime mores, and taking a large volume rather than just comfort sucking.

First of all we did a bit of NCSS - so i would roll over after feeding before he was asleep and let him fall asleep by himself. this took a while - he didn't like it initially but once he got it, he could do it every time.

I then reduced the time he was feeding by a min every night until we got down to 5 mins. then my dh had a week off so we did it more quickly- 3 mins then 1 min, and i rolled over while he pawed by back, moaning rather than crying, and eventually fell asleep.

we put ds into his own room, and to be honest i think that really helped as he couldn't see or smell me.

the first night he woke and up and dh went in to offer him water (which he didn't take) . he cried for about 2 hours, with dh there patting and sshhing him. DH slept in his room next to the cot for a couple of nights to ease the transition. he eventually fell asleep. it was easier every night - after a few nights he would settle with a quick pat and sshh, and then he would wake up, just once about 4am and cry a bit. it was more like a grumble then a proper cry so we didn't go in.

he occasionally wakes up and chats but puts himself back to sleep and then last night slept through for first time ever. (i know was prob a one off but was LOVELY)

good luck
HTH

sorry for poor punctuation/grammar am in a rush and no time to check but didn't want to not post.

thank you very much for your advice

luvaduck, i have been thinking about trying her in her own room. am a tad nervous about it to be honest! dh does have a long weekend this weekend though so am temped to give it a go.. see if it helps at all (i think you may be right reguarding the smell).
at nearly 14 months i really do want a tiny bit more sleep!
dd is the same with the water, she wont even entertain it. i am sure alot of bf babies have this massive stubborn streak.
i dont think she was ever really taking much milk at night, judging by my boobs at the moment, not had any leaking or engorgment in the morning. so it was a comfort thing i think, and she only ever fed for 3 or 4 mins then drifted back off. would have tried a dummy but she wont even entertain a rubber nipple substitute..
when i tried rolling over to 'say no' to feeds i found she would keep trying to stand up - did you have this problem?
i have resorted to sleeping in a large sweater at the mo.

oldiebutgoodie - i know what you mean, it really does seem so much easier to just feed then fall back to sleep, but i promised myself i would try for a week or so and see if there is any progression, if not i will probably give up! i will let you know if it does start to get better. would be nice to have more than 2-3 hours consecutive sleep.

Just a quick question thats a bit of a tangent really - dd never eats much at all during the day (1 yoghurt/half a peice of toast at best) did you have this problem with your children? this is part of the reason i decided to night wean, but her appitite has not increased at all.

sorry for the long post.
thanks again!

I did think I'd still be feeding to sleep when he's 2 but am so glad i've broken it - and it really wasn't all that bad. and with minimum fuss from ds really - a mix of jay gordon and ncss. dh was always with him so he knew he wasn't alone.

does she self setlle at all in the day?? for naps etc?

can you try at bedtime first - feeding and then putting down when sleepy but not asleep and maybe dh patting her to sleep so she gets used to it. we used key words as well - sleepytime now, sleepy time.

yes he would try and roll over me to get to my boobs - it took 2 hours the first night for him to fall asleep without boob in mouth but much less subsequent nights.

we loved having ds in our room even though everyone else thought we were bonkers, and i didn't sleep a wink the first night he was in his own room. now i have the baby monitor up loud and we're both fine.

his appetite is variable and he still has quite a lot of breastmilk in the day, but is along the 75th centile so am not worried. he is eating more now we've night weaned (but still mr fussy!)

is your dh supportive??? mine is a star and was prepared to get up and go to ds even when he was back at work so it def broke the needing me around to sleep association.

good luck!

DH is supportive of the co-leeping, breastfeeding (MIL and FIL are not at all supportive though!) He is a very heavy sleeper though and sleeps through pretty much most of it! On weekends he will try and help out though (after a swift kick inthe shins)

She wont settle herself in the day at all for naps, and not for initially going to bed either. I think the 'feed to sleep' is going to be our next challenge. Oh heck! It never ends hey!
I would love it if she could settle herself though. I am trying to get her to release the nipple before drifting off, with some success, it seems to depend on how exhausted she actually is. I think we will try the 'shush sleepy time' with DH over the weekend too. (poor bloke doesnt know what he is in for)

DD is also on the 75th, but i have been cutting feeds down in the day too, to see if she will up her food intake. she only has feeds moring, evening, and nap time at the moment, how many feeds a day does your DS have? I am temped to feed her more through the day and see if that helps at night.

Thank you or all your advice, so re-assuring to know other people have actually managed this. I know what you mean when you said you thoughs you would still be feeding to sleep at 2! It feels hard to imagine she will never need the boob.

FF - I don't personally feel the waking is connected to daytime food intake. My DS eats quite a bit some days and still has loads of bf during the day as well. I feel he wakes and feeds in the night for a bit of comfort and reassurance that I'm still there - just 'checking in' for a few minutes, kind of thing.Which is one reason I find it quite hard to deny him.

As for my attempts at getting him to self settle for naps or for the night, if I put him in the cot he stands up and screams and gets hysterical and if I lie down with him on the bed he crawls around and jumps about laughing. After about 30 mins of repeatedly laying him down and shh-ing and patting and saying 'sleepy time' I give in and get the boob out.

I know, I have no staying power whatsoever

have you read NCSS???

there is a great bit in there about self settling -starting with just removing boob and clamping jaw shut, to rolling over to putting in cot awake and sitting by bed. its what we did and it really worked, but over a few weeks. only then did we tackle the night weaning when i knew he could self settle.

Ds has three feeds a day (prev more) and I don't think feeding more helped in go longer at night

we always give a weetabix in the bath at night to try and fill him up before, then give boob

am thinking of you both you can get there!

The problem is that the waking is almost certainly nothing to do with food/night nursing. It's just a stick people use to beat bf women with and make parents feel like they're doing something wrong. Some children don't sleep well until much, much later. I have one, and it has made me philosophical. He's coming up on 26 months and he wakes 4 times a night. On very rare occasions (three?) he has gone a 5-hour stretch.

I cut out the feeding to sleep at Christmas (which was hell; 2-hours to settle him because we didn't have a routine established) and it took about 3 weeks to get into a decent bedtime pattern. I swore not to tackle the night weaning until later, and truth be told, he's just not ready yet. Some nights he'll take a cup of water, others he wakes, has a wee (potty) and goes back to sleep straight away without even so much as a cuddle, but he always wakes up about 2 hours later.

There is so much going on at 13 months; first words, first steps, pointing, processing sequences, following instructions, molars, mastering silverware, mimicking... it just does their head in! Their mind never gets quiet and some of them it just throws for a loop. (Remember when you'd been up late studying for a test how it affected your sleep? That's their night every night for some of them!)

I think that transitions are easier to make when they get older and their communication is better established. But ultimately, any transition is going to be very, very hard if they're not ready for it, and very, very easy if they are.

well last night was urrrm.. interesting. bed at 8pm, fed in arms till drowsy and got her into her side along crib. she slept till 10pm when i fed her again. and then she slept until 3.30!!!! was over the moon as she has not done this in months and months. but then...she whimpered for boob for 2 hours. it wasnt fully fledged screaming just the odd cry then whimper, but it just went on and on. i let her in with us and eventually at 5.30 (figuring it was light outside anyway) fed her. she slept till 8.39 (also a new development) so not bad all in all, but wish the 2 hours crying would lessen! we tried patting and cuddling but she just wouldnt drift of.

Luvaduck- i have a copy of ncss, i must get it out again. i remember reading about the hold the jaw bit - will give it a go. but last night she went off quite well. i sat up feeding her till she was very sleepy reather than lying along side her.

weetabix in the bath - grand idea will give it a go.
i do feel reassured its not her lack of eating thats stopping her sleeping though, after what everyone has said.

ches- thanks for your reply. i think you are very correct that there is alot going on at 13 months. i was just starting to go crazy from the 2hourly night time feeds. and very selfishly wanted more sleep. but if she continues like this for much longer we probably will just leave it and try again in a few months. i do feel awful depriving her of her only comforter. but i guess also all the external presures from friends and relatives about 'baby sleeping with parents' and 'breastfeeding beyond a year' and all the 'she still doesnt slee through' comments were finally starting to make me feel like it was me doing something wrong. no one else in my extended family or friends either have children, and if they do they were only breastfed for about 2 days, so they dont really apreciate the difference breastfeeding can make to all of this.
once again sorry for the long post, and thankyou thankyou thankyou for everyones replys!! its lovely to know other people are actually going through this too/have the same issues.

Oh goodness the boob is not her only comfort, it's just her favourite comfort! You give her comfort in a number of different ways. Also, my advice is always to night wean before they can ask to nurse with a word/sign. Once they can ask and you know exactly what they're asking for, it's awful to deny them! (Which is why I'm such a pansy about it.)

Ah Ha FF! the pressures from friends and relatives, now I see where you're coming from

I get those and lately it has been making my blood boil. I think to myself, I've done everything for that boy since the day he was born (single parent with limited help) and people feel they can glibbly comment on how I've done it whilst offering little real support.

Do what ever feels right for you and your DD and ignore them. Where are they in the middle of the night when she's crying?

Sorry, rant

Not sure if this is helpful one way or another but we night weaned DD at 14months. She was in her own room and not waking so often (1-2x a night). It was as you say due to pressure from family etc and also just really craving better sleep.
We did it like you still bf to sleep but then no feed 11pm-6am and DH rocked/comforted her whilst she screamed.
The really horrible screaming was only for a few nights but she still carried on waking for another 2 months and needing to be rocked to sleep. It seems we just replaced one comfort with another and as we couldn't face any controlled crying we just tried to gradually reduce ie from rocking to patting and stroking in cot.
We did wonder if it was worth it especially as our friends with a DD the same age carried on bf at night and their DD slept through at 16 months also!
If I had my time over I think I wouldn't bother actually unless you are really getting good results.

i just posted a new thread about this before finding this one. just goes to show its all normal. i notice dr jay says 'after after ten nights they just stop..' just want to know if this is a FACT, before i start. i tried everything in ncss for 6 months, the ppo all the time, cos this is the only way he will ever stop, but it hasn't transformed into any self settling ever.

well it did for our ds.

he occasionally wakes once for a little grizzle, but generally sleeps 830-730. its been life changing. slightly painful at the start but not too bad really. And we didn't ever abandon him as you do with cc so felt a lot kinder.

I really think the OP prob needs to work ont he self settling bit though, through using NCSS techniques, and then attack night weaning.

"really think the OP prob" - sorry about double negative!!

Posted on other thread.

We did this early (9mo) with DS having had all sorts of sleep problems with him. To be fair he had already improved before I decided to do it but was still feeding 2-3x per night and would sometimes be awake for up to 3hrs after each feed.

By night 8 he was fully night weaned - and I mean 7-5.

A week or so later I put him in his own room.

This was approx 5 weeks ago and I think there has maybe been 2 nights in that time that I have needed to feed him in the night.

(I no longer think of 5am as night time though - it is just "getting up time" now!)

wow, thanks. that is reassuring to know, also reassuring to see that its very commmon. will plan my strategy. not ready to try right now as we are so tired and dh working nights but will defo make plans. he's only on 2nd centile so have been reluctant but don't think he's getting much milk now anyhow.