Major nap and sleep issues in 11 week old baby

[Crazycatlady]

My DD has never been a great sleeper but seems to be deteriorating as the weeks go on, basically I'm knackered and looking for some advice.

Currently bedtime is 7/7.30ish after a bath/top and tail, feed in dark room, wind then rocking to settle. She sleeps until 10.30ish then wakes for feed. After this feed she then wakes every hour to hour and a half throughout the night until she starts her day anytime between 6 and 7. Sometimes she is hungry, sometimes not, sometimes she has trapped wind, but seems to also be waking repeatedly for no apparent reason and takes a long while to go back to sleep after rocking/shushing/patting etc...

We were cosleeping from midnightish onwards but this now doesn't seem to be helping and she has also developed an all night snacking habit from having constant access to the breast, which I don't want to cultivate.

Any ideas on what I can do to help her sleep better? Would it help to implement some sort of feeding schedule through the night, say, every 3 hours after her 10.30 feed so she gets used to waking less frequently for food?

Other things that might be relevant:

• she's in a grobag in a bedside cot
• not that keen on a dummy, sometimes use to settle her but she inevitably spits it out/thinks it's a game!
• she is on Infacol, although with the all-night snacking my consistency in administering has been poor overnight
• daytime naps are also an enormous struggle to get her down and frequently won't stay down longer than 30 minutes. Previous solution was to pop her in the buggy for a walk but this doesn't work anymore, she's far too interested in her surroundings. I try to get her to have at least 2 naps a day, 3 if they've been short ones.
• always has been what's described as hyper-alert...
• had v traumatic birth with forceps (we are seeing a cranial osteopath, second session tomorrow)
• was under phototherapy lights for first week of life for jaundice
• she's exclusively breastfed on demand and feeds every 3 to 3 1/2 hours during the day.

I'm trying to work on the principle that little babies need to sleep every two hours, but this doesn't seem to apply to my daughter! She doesn't give off very obvious sleepy signs and gets very cross indeed if I try to put her down before she's anything other than exhausted (read - overtired).

All ideas gratefully received, or even just shared experiences of babies at this age - it's good to know you're not alone!!

It's hard when they learn how to escape the swaddle! I know what you means Sykes about sucking their hands - DD just seems to get a bit manic and cross that she can't get her entire fist in her mouth!

After one successful swaddling night last night wasn't so good, she kept breaking out and just wanted to feed the whole time so I let her.

Hensmum that's interesting about the 40 minute mark... I might try that with her 30 minute wake up time. And the threshold of home is always when her eyes pop open... argh, must be the familiar smells of the house or something, unless she's in a really deep sleep she's awake as soon as we get the buggy in the door! Ah well, like you say, pounding the streets is good for the post-pregnancy shape up...

I find DS stays asleep after a walk if I march the buggy straight through the house and park him in the garden.

I think it's the change in temp that wakes them.

We're thinking of trying to get tough tonight and not letting him feed every time he wakes up but trying to settle him without a feed or leaving him to cry a bit (guilty 'bad Mum' feelings coming.....). Will let you know how it goes.

Well, it went fairly well last night!! He went to sleep at 8pm after a massive feed. He woke at 11pm but we decided he couldn't be hungry so hubby went in and picked him up for a cuddle and put him back down again. He then went in every 5 minutes to calm him down and see if he would go back to sleep without a feed. He screamed like mad but to my surprise went back to sleep in less than 20 mintes (i.e. hubby only had to get up 3 times.) He then slept until 2am. I gave him a nice long feed and a nappy change and put him back down and he slept until 4.30. He woke 3 times between 4.30 and 7am but only cried for less than 5 minutes each time before going back to sleep so hubby didn't have to get up to him. He then got up at 7am had a nice feed and is a happy bunny today!!
Felt a bit brutal letting him cry but he did seem to get the message. Will see how it goes tonight......

Well done Sykes! We're thinking of doing exactly the same thing as DD just isn't taking proper feeds at night but snacking her way through the early hours and into the morning, then not really hungry for the first part of the day either, argh...

Glad to hear your first night went well, I'm quite nervous about tonight, but I think it has to be worth a try to see if she'll fall into a new (more sleep friendly) pattern.

Let us know how you get on x

How did it go last night crazycatlady? My lo did even better lastnight - I can't believe this is working so far!!! He went to sleep at 8.45pm, woke at 12.30am and hubby went in 2 times so calm him down as he put on a good old screaming show again. This time back to sleep in about 15 minutes though. Then he didn't wake again until 3.45am!!!! Gave him a big feed and nappy change and put him back down and then he only woke once more between 4.30am and 7.30am and again he cried for less than 5 mins and put himself back to sleep without us going in. What's more, when I went in to check on him at 7.45 this morning he was awake in his cot and not crying!!! First time ever as he usually cries the minute he wakes up. I really hope this lasts - I feel like a new woman!!

Oh that's great Sykes, it's amazing what just a little bit more sleep can do for you!

We've had two slightly better nights after a hideous Thursday night, but DD has still ended up in bed next to me some time around midnight but last night only woke for feeds at 12.30 and 4.15 after a short and very sleepy dreamfeed at 10.30. She was ready to start her day at 5.45 though, argh!

We've decided to really concentrate on the daytime naps and feeds in the hope that getting that sorted will help overall with the nights if she's going to bed having had enough food and not overtired. It's hard work but she's napped really well this morning and is just a joy to be around at the moment, so it's clear she really does need those daytime naps.

Fingers crossed for another good night for you.

Hi CCL,

Had a really good night last night but he's been a little horror today, especially this evening. He has been screaming blue murder and has been hysterical - it's been a nightmare!! Finally got him off to sleep at 9pm and off to bed myself now. Have a feeling tonight isn't going to go so well as couldn't do any of the bedtime routine (i.e. bath, massage etc) as he was too upset. 2 steps forward, 1 step back seems to be the story with this little one.

He was actaulyl alright last night afterall. Slept from 9pm-3.30am and then from 4.30am-7.30am. I thinhk we may have cracked it for now. Let me know how you are getting on.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I have been following the Sleepytot Blogand I'm sure the lady on that has got an easy baby! Ha!

One thing she does say is that putting your baby down to sleep awake is the most important thing. So maybe you could try not rocking your baby to sleep? I've found the advice on there useful - better than the books because at least it's real!

I dont get lots of this, but Im pretty old school and dont believe in co-sleeping etc.

IMHO you need to stop the co-sleeping, and why are you rocking your baby to sleep?? I have a friend who's child at 5 will still not sleep without her stroking him ...bizarre, sorry but children need to learn to fall asleep on their own.
Swaddling was my godsend, i used to wrap ds up like a little worm and he would drop off in minutes (daytime too)
Hope you sort it out

Well she only gets rocked gently to settle her down, then she gets a little cuddle and down in the cot dozy with eyes closed but not completely asleep IYSWIM. I then just hold a hand on her chest until she's off.

If I put her down completely awake (I've tried it many times), she just stays awake, playful for an hour or so then starts to whinge. She'd stay like that all day (and all night) if I let her so I do need to help her get to sleep for now - she's only 12 weeks afterall.

Swaddling just seems to make her angry, and she won't take a dummy now either (which I don't really mind).

We've been working on getting her to nap however we can at the moment to make sure she's not overtired, then as off the Easter weekend (when DH will be around more to help for a good few days and nights) we are going to work on getting her to nap in her cot and stay in her own bed at night! We know she can do it as she sleeps in her own cot from 7.30pm until her first night feed at about 11.30pm it's just helping her to do it the rest of the time that we need to work on!

p.s. glad to hear things are going better Sykes

How have the last few nights been CCL? We had a terrible night last night. Hubby and me must have got up about 9 or 10 times between us. I'm knackered!!

You poor thing! I think that will be us over the Easter break though when we start working on DD staying in her cot all night.

At the moment I'm just trying to get her as much sleep as possible, however possible, so it's long walks in the buggy during the day and some cosleeping at night.

Last night she did well - went down at 7.30 after her last feed, then again at 10.30 after dreamfeed. But the she was up at 11.30 so I put her next to me and she slept until 6.50am - albeit punctuated with a few short slurps of boob here and there throughout the night - but no proper feeds so it's obviously a comfort thing now more than a need for food. A habit we can break I'm sure with a bit of concerted effort on mine and DH's part from Thursday night onwards - not looking forward to it at all!

What do you think caused your bad night last night? It's two steps forward one step back I think... normal I reckon, but frustrating all the same.

mosschops Your friend 5 year old is not a result of rocking to sleep at just weeks old.

Children do not not need to be taught how to fall asleep, unless you believe they never slept in the womb.

Babies fall asleep when they feel safe. As they grow older and get used to world around them and learn that their mother still exists when not in sight they can feel safe in her absence.

Thinking of you tonight CCL - here's hoping LO gets your drift quickly, and you and DH can drift off as well!

xx

Hi Boobz!

Well last night was a disaster of two hourly wakings but not really hungry then up for the day at 5 and not hungry until 7.30 argh...

Started on a new System today, as recommended by our sleep consultant, and just did our first successful Pick Up Put Down to get her ladyship off to sleep at 7.30 and IT WORKED.

A loooong night ahead methinks, while she gets used to not being fed back to sleep every time and being settled back in her cot rather than coming in with us. I'm going to dreamfeed at 10.30 then not feed her again until at least 2.30, then not again before 6. Expecting a few wake ups in between which will be hard as we'll be PUPD again, probably for AGES.

Hope your little lady is still being an angel xx

Hi CCL. how did it go last night? after the initial success of our first few nights of PUPD last week things have not gone quite so well, but there is still a definate improvement. 2 steps forward, one step back....

I would just like to say that it does get better!
DD was like this as a baby, would wake up every couple of hours. I was bloody knackered.
She is now 12 and won't get out of bed now!

Thanks HCPP! How quickly does it get better? I hope before 12 years ...!

Sykes we had an okish time of it last night. PUPD worked to resettle her when she woke at 9pm and 11.30pm (did a DF at 10.30 but she didn't take much). Fed at 1am as she was starving by then, and she resettled in cot easily.

Then at 3am it went a bit wrong... she woke, hungry again and PUPD was just winding her up. I was then exhausted, and she also sounded like she had a bad sore throat and stuffy nose. Not wanting to sleep train a sick baby I put her down to sleep next to me for the rest of the night. So it's progress, no matter how small.

Today has been ok, PUPD didn't work for first nap of the day so she's had 3 naps in buggy. Feeding going well. Will do PUPD for bedtime settling then see how she goes overnight. She does have a slight sore throat/cold so don't want to push it.

Hope you have a better night tonight. It's normal to get some regression isn't it? Frustrating though...

How's it going CCL? We had another terrible night last night. Hubby eneded up in the spare room from 3am and had a lay in until 11am this morning. Lucky him. I on the other hand was up every hour or 2 all night and when I did get to bed I couldn't sleep. Have so far managed to grab about an hour today when lo was napping.

I need sleep!!!

Oh no, poor you Sykes. Why couldn't your H help you a bit more last night? Were you feeding every wake up?

After two terrible nights we had a slightly better one last night - just as many wake ups but DD is getting better at settling herself now we're teaching her what to do.

• she went to bed at 7,

-dreamfeed at 10.30 (which after some perseverance she's starting to take more at),

• woke at midnight and settled herself after two mins with H sitting by her cot
• woke at 2.30am for feed - good feed
• woke at 4 - same as midnight
• started day at 6.15

So not too bad really. Starting to get some good daytime naps and spacing out feeds a bit during the day so she's properly hungry and taking a full feed. Seems to be helping the overall situation. Expecting some setbacks though, have got the night fear already!

keep going CCL, you're doing a great job. Hope she starts to get better soon - thinking of you
xx

No, hubby is usually pretty good but I got to the point where I couldn't sleep so I said he may as well sleep in another room as there was no point us both lying there awake all night! I didn't feed every wake up. Am trying really hard to only feed at bedtime, one feed in the night and then one feed when he gets up, although is very tempting to just feed him sometimes and not have to go through the PUPD and the crying!

Glad you had a better night and that DD is getting better at settling herself. Sounds like you are doing all the right things and glad it is paying off. How was last night?

I managed to get a couple of hours sleep before he woke last night and then a fair buit of broken sleep for the rest of the night. Also went back to bed when he has his first nap this morning, which ended up being 2 hours long (!) so I got about 1 and a half hours sleep then. Planning on going to bed early again tonight but still feels odd to go to bed at 9/10pm. I am by nature a proper night owl.

Good luck for the rest of the week! He's getting Christened this Sunday and I must admit I'm dreading it! Spirited baby who likes a good scream and all those people watchign and expecting him to be all cute - uh-oh!!