8 week old cannot/will not fall asleep - is there anything can be done, other than hoping that time will sort it out?

[drivingmisscrazy]

8 week old DD is a very alert and active baby (i.e. limbs never still when awake, constantly looking at things), so much so that it is almost impossible to get her to sleep during the day. We've tried feeding her to sleep (she's breastfed), her bouncer (30 mins settling, 25 mins sleep), the pram - usually works, but wakes after about 30 mins, putting her in her crib in darkened room (worked once for about 10 mins, after approx 40 mins of settling). Also tried shush/pat, but seemed to have little effect.

The issue is this - she's constantly overtired, but is seemingly unable to fall asleep even with a great deal of help (and yes, we've tried a soother); it's just that somehow you feel that there MUST be something that we can do, or something that we are doing wrong which means that she will not sleep. Or is this just the way she is, and will grow out of it in time? If there is something we can do to help her I'd like to know. Most sleep books seem to say that there's little that you can do before 3/4 months with a baby that doesn't easily fall asleep (she is a bit colicky too)

She generally sleeps well at night, waking every 3 hours or so for feeds, and going back to sleep (she co-sleeps with us), but I suspect this is because she is completely exhausted due to her lack of daytime sleep.

Today, for example, we decided to go with the flow, so she slept for about 40 mins at 8.30, fitfully for about 30 mins from 11, and for another 30 mins (by dint of hour long walk in pram - only fell asleep as we were coming home) at about 2. And that's it. She is now, of course, wailing with fatigue, making it even harder for her to go to sleep.Any suggestions, even if it's to confirm our sense that there's very little we can do, other than comfort her and try and create a conducive sleep environment.

Sorry - have rambled on but hate to see her getting so distressed because she's tired - she's otherwise fine, growing, gaining weight, meeting milestones, a charmer when not utterly cranky from lack of sleep

My Ds was like this.

The only thing that worked was to swaddle him really tightly, with his arms by his sides, and put him in his cot in the dark, and let him cry for up to 5 mins.

It sounds awful, letting them cry, but I never let it go on for more than 5 mins, and it very rarely does. If it does, I go back in and cuddle him, offer him the boob etc, until he clams down and try again.

also I never let him stay up more than 2 hrs after he last woke, as then he was a complete nightmare to get off.

I'll probably get shot down in flames for suggesting you let her cry - I'm not recommending it, just saying what I did.

But it was the swaddling that made the biggest difference.

ok thanks - we have left her to cry for short periods (so I won't flame you!) but it didn't help and just distressed her (and yes, we did do it more than once) - from everything I've read she's really too small to be left to cry for longer than a few minutes. I hear you on the 2 hour thing, except that actually putting her to sleep is precisely the problem.

starlight that's more or less the conclusion we've come to - she is fed pretty much on demand and is held a lot of the time. Just wanted to check that we are not missing anything obvious that would help her

Have you tried using a sling and seeing if she'll sleep in that for longer? My DD (now 19 weeks) was/is very similar to what you're describing and the only place she sleeps for any length of time, apart from at night when we co-sleep, is in a sling when she knows she's next to me and not too far from her food source! Like your DD she's very alert and active and she's always been a great sleeper at night but during the day it's difficult to get her to stay asleep anywhere other than the sling, she just seems to wake up after 30 minutes and doesn't seem to sleep very deeply, although that has improved in recent weeks.
We went to see a cranial osteopath to see if anything could be done to help but tbh I don't know if it has or not, although DD does sleep a bit more deeply now when she does fall asleep anywhere other than the sling and can be put down in her cot for a morning nap very occasionally. But based on my own (limited)experience I feel my DD just wants to be close to me and I'm enjoying it whilst it lasts
The swaddling might be worth a try though - my DD didn't take to it because she likes having her hands free (she sleeps in a grobab at night). That's just her though and I know it works for a lot of babies.
HTH

Have you tried putting her in a carrier / sling and walking?

my DS was / is very active (hardly naps during the day even now - esp. if there is something going on!) but take the dog for a walk - and he's out like a light!!!!

My dd the same - great at night but rubbish in the day. I'm afraid she's 4.5 months and still the same (getting slightly better I spose). We swaddle her at night which does the trick (now trying to get out of it by using grobag for first part of night- her arms are evil!). I found the hug a bub sling good, but my best thing is the baby swing. got it when she was 8 weeks for £30 off ebay, and I put her in it, give her dummy and blanket then leave the room. I keep going in when she cries (usually cos dummy has fallen out) and putting it back in then going out again. Takes about 30 mins usually, but at least I can do stuff whilst shes settling. The other best thing is dh - somehow he can get her to sleep in about 3 minutes every time. God knows how!...

I just try and focus on the fact she;s good at night.... good luck

Babies definitely do get over-tired - can't understand why anyone would question this. They have a really distinctive high-pitched wail when they are very tired and over-stimulated, and only sleep will fix it. At that age I'd have thought swaddling, cuddles in a dark room, and getting into the habit of putting her down before she gets too tired (ie no more than two hours after she last woke up) - and doing all these things consistently - would help. Eight weeks is too young for any pattern of behaviour to be really entrenched, I'd have thought, so if you're concerned about it, I'm sure it's worth addressing.

My DD is now 3 and was exactly the same (and had night and day confused for ages - awful). In the end the baby carrier worked as she just wanted to be close to me - that and drives in the car (which can be quite nice, you can take a book, park up when baby is asleep and have a pleasant read).

She eventually gave up any semblence of a nap at about 13 mths, which was a relief for all concerned to be honest.

Just one thing - I would say try v hard not to feed to sleep. I did this too often and it became a real rod for my back as she started waking all through the night needing me to feed her back to sleep (took me til she was over a yr old to stop it)

My dd was like this. She got a bit better at 5-6 months.

There is hope.

She is now 2. She asks to go upstairs for her daytime nap. She leaps into her cot with glee and finds her favourite toy and blanket. She requires no settling at all. She sleeps through the night.

Deep breath. It is a phase.

Agree on the overtired thing.

Look out for the yawn, they aren't bored, they really are tired! If I miss more than 3 yawns without helping my DS to nap then he does the high-pitched crying and won't settle.

I use a bouncy chair with "calming vibrations". I have found DS has napped a lot better since I line it with a fleece pram blanket from John Lewis. Oh and I also don't do up his sleepsuits right to the neck as it seems to overheat and bother him, I leave the top two poppers undone (he has a vest underneath).

I dim but don't 100% darken the room, and place the bouncy chair in front of something without visuals ie the wardrobe door. If his eyes are wandering I put my hand in front of (not on) his eyes to cut out whatever visual stimulation he has found.

Also would say it's worth reading up on the topic. I would not be sane if I hadn't. Gina Ford, Baby Whisperer, Baby Secrets - they are not just about routines, they have got lots of good advice about how to get babies to nap etc and how much sleep babies need.

Read all you can lay your hands on!

thanks to all - some good suggestions that we will try I would say again though that I completely understand the point about the 2 hour interval - the problem is that despite our best efforts to put her off to sleep before she shows signs of tiredness and before 1h30m is up, we can't actually get her to go to sleep. So it's like we all know the theory, but can't actually get it to work in practice. And even if we can, she wakes at best about 40 minutes later, but usually much much less than this.

Closing down stimulation seems to work to an extent - unfortunately our house was done in our child-free days and is full of light spaces!

But I really appreciate your responses - it's comforting to know that some babies are just like this!

It really would be worth trying swaddling though, if you haven't done so before.

As Starlight says they manage to get themselves off to sleep in the womb, but sometimes we have to recreate those 'womb-like' conditions. And that means dim lights, not too much noise, and swaddling to keep those flailing arms and legs under control.

I know I bang on about it, but I can't emphasise enough the difference it made to my DS2. He was taking up to 2 hours to fall asleep every time, he'd look like he was dozing off, then jolt awake, and this could go on for hours. And when he did get off, he was up again within half an hour most of the time.

The first night I swaddled him, he went off to sleep within 10 mins, then slept for 7 hours. Yes, 7 HOURS!!! 10 pm - 5 am. The transformation was that dramatic.

PLEASE give it a try. Don't be fooled if she appears to fight the swaddle to begin with - they're the ones who need it. If you can get her off to sleep in it, I'd bet my bottom dollar she'd sleep for longer. Maybe try feeding her to sleep in ti to begin with.

It's become a great sleep association for my son too - yesterday he was getting really tired and cranky in his bouncy chair. I took him out and swaddled him , then put him down in the buggy ( I was going out) and he was out like a light, yet there's no way he'd have dozed off in the chair.

Best of luck

jojay wow! that's an amazing transformation. Waiting for her to wake up to try it! How long can you swaddle them for? I've read 60 days- and we're almost at that point. Interestingly she sleeps in a grobag at night, but her attempts to suck her thumb often wake her; she has a fleecy wrap that we use in the car seat, and often she goes into a good deep sleep - but this might just be the motion of the car, but the wrap seems to help her to stay asleep.

Will let you know how we get on

Good luck - my ds is nearly 5 months and we still swaddle him - i try him every now and again without it and it's a nightmare so I plan to carry on as long as it takes, no time limits here!

update - DD had two good sleeps this morning, was up for an hour (looking a little sleepy) so we swaddled her, put her in her bouncer in a quiet room with the curtains drawn, and with a blanket over the bouncer (facing the wall), gentle rocking and shushing and 35 mins later she is still awake - content and not crying, and periodically yawning, but awake. Also she is making Houdini like attempts to escape the swaddle (this child managed to wriggle out of her hospital security tag about 7 times, to the amazement of the staff).

Methinks there really isn't anything else much that we can do - she's fed, changed, not overtired, quiet, calm, warm, secure, safe and all the rest, but still not asleep. AARGH!

we'll keep trying - I guess one day it might work

Sympathies - dd was like this. We went for many many many long walks with her in the pram. She'd be out like a light, I'd stop to read a book, and lo and behold! Wide awake again. But it passed, we kept walking, she slept longer, so I read more (on a freezing cold beach in winter!) and got fitter. It will get better!

thanks habbibu that's cheering - I'm a great reader so that will help. Ignoring her seems to help a bit too! And fitness is always a good idea too.

DS does that some days, but others just sleeps most of the day.....never know which it will be. Swaddling doesn't work as he's too active and escapes, which then wakes him up. He gets over tired too I think - it took me a while to notice the sleepy signs, or to realise that I needed to act fast on them.

One way seems to be to put him on his tummy on my chest whilst I lie back on sofa or lean up in bed. Not sure if it's the warmth, closeness or what, but sometimes it's the only place he'll sleep. I usually have to pee, get a drink, laptop in reach and comfy pillows beforehand as will be trapped for a while getting nothing else done. Gives him a rest though. I know these days we're told not to put them on their tums, but sometimes it seems to be his preference.

Well - sounds like you're doing everything. It is frustrating when it still doesn't work. At least she was content and not bellowing!! I'm sure she'll still benefit from quiet/chill out time even if she isn't actually asleep.

yes, indeed - in fact she did sleep for about 30 mins having effectively put herself to sleep (i.e. not fed to sleep, not on a lap) without too much trauma. Probably would have stayed asleep longer were it not for a poo which woke her up

thanks again for all the suggestions - we'll just keep on trying