6 month old fighting sleep, sorry, long

[Pipnik]

I say 6 month old but he's been doing it since he was born. Self settling is just a distant dream I have, I've only ever seen him get to relaxed and tired on his own with the aid of a car or pushchair. Currently I'd be grateful to even be able to consistently feed/rock him to sleep. I can't count the number of times I've sat with other mums holding relaxed sleepy children in NCT groups etc and felt like I was the one with an octopus in a string bag.

I've been lurking for the last year and I'm now finally driven to write, really getting wound up and thought it was a better idea than yelling at DS or thumping a wall (yesterday's outcome).

Today's scenario, DS woke at 7 this morning after about 10.5 hours sleep (7 to 7 with 3 1/2 hour feeds (that's a post for another time)) and I was able to feed/rock him to sleep for an hour nap from 10 to 11.

We've been shopping this afternoon and he had two 10 min power naps in the car at 1pm and 3.30pm. I was hoping when I got home he would be tired enough for a proper nap but he's fed, burped, changed and I've been rocking him in a dark room with relaxing music for the last hour with no success. He's just wriggling, arm waving, talking or grisling. He has a dummy but unless I hold his hand he takes it out and chews it then drops it and cries till I give it back.

Surely he must be tired? I've now left him in his cot with the mobile, ceiling lights and music and he's just talking to himself between intermittent dummy chewing. I've been back in twice when he's cried to pick the dummy back up off the carpet and give back to him.

Now it's too late for a nap (bed at 7) and I've just wasted the last two hours and got nowhere other than making the two of us very grumpy.

He's a lovely bright, inquisitive, happy child but trying to get him to sleep at bed or nap time is taking longer and longer and daily ending up with the both of us in tears. I'm sure it's creating all the wrong associations.

Sorry it's so long, really needed to wind down and recharge before trying the bedtime routine

Poor you. Your ds sounds like mine was - always on the go - I laughed when I read the Octopus description! It sounds like there is lots going on for both of you but maybe the main problem is that he's not learned to self settle. Are you always helping him to go to sleep? This might be the key to changing his sleep habits.

Also, do you have a schedule in the day at all? What time do you put him down for his first nap? It may be that he's becoming too overtired to put himself to sleep - esp if he's a bit of livewire!

I can remember those frustrating times when I felt like screaming because my DS just wouldn't sleep but i got some good advice, stuck to it and he sleeps well now. I am becoming a bit of a sales rep for these guys - but you could try a Sleepytot Baby Comforter for the dummy problem.

The good news is that this won't last forever. x

Hi Pipnik

I feel your pain, as I am in much the same situation myself. DS is 7 months old and not a great sleeper. I probably don't have any smart ideas for you as I am still struggling big time here. I am trying the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley. We are having some improvements some of the time. Since Xmas DS is suddely very tired by 6pm and so now going to bed is not a problem. Staying asleep on the other hand is a different story. He has started going for longer spells in the evening (5 hours the other night), but the rest of the night can be every 1 to 2 hours and then ready for the day at 5.

Naps are problematic. At least he does sleep in the day now, but when he was newborn he would feed all day and not sleep at all. Now he will nap but only on me having been fed to sleep first. The concept of "putting a baby down" to sleep is just an alien concept compared to our reality.

So I wanted to say that you aren't alone. It is unbelievably frustrating. For me somethings are getting better, although why this is I don't know. Sorry not to be more constructive.

Hi pipnik, I'm another voice of sympathy. It's incredibly frustrating when you've got a little boy who finds it so hard to sleep. My DS is now 15 mo and it's been a long journey (I try not to say struggle, but it was!) but he does now settle to naps and nights with much more ease. It WILL end, I promise!

My main bit of advice would be to ignore every other parent you meet whose baby sleeps! Nearly everyone who is lucky enough to have a baby who sleeps thinks they have the answer. Let me reassure you- if it was that easy you would have thought of it!

My second bit of advice is do not read any sleep books, as they too are full of formulas that mostly will not work for your babe. I always found the times I was most successful with my DS was when I thought of it myself!

Here are the things that worked for us, it might give you a few ideas.

Firstly, for naps, I used to wait til he was so tired he couldn't fight it any longer. If it took more than ten minutes to get him to sleep, I gave up, played for an hour, then tried again.

I made some strong sleep associations with blankets and music. This initially involved driving round in the car with blanket on and music playing while he fell asleep. At times when I was desperate I would drive round for an hour so he got a good nap! The next stage was rocking to sleep in his buggy with the music/ blanket. Then finally putting him in the cot with the same. I had to start with the car as this was the only place he would reliably fall asleep. Now I only have to sing a few lines of the song in his ear and he goes all floppy- bliss!

Fresh air, fresh air and more fresh air! We always go out twice a day, even now, and I always pushed him to the physical limit of wherever he was- if he was learning to sit up, I got him to do it loads. When he was learning to walk, I held his hands for hours. Now he's a toddler we run, run run! This may sound cruel but he honestly loved it and then also loved the sleeping time more because his body was really longing for it.

I'm going on, sorry, but that's because after all the time I am now passionate about this subject of sleep with babies who are reluctant!

I really hope you find your way with your son soon, I know you will in the end. The next 6-10 months are just amazing in terms of development and you'll start to understand his likes/ dislikes/ personality so much better, be able to communicate with him more and you'll be amazed and what your little octopus is capable of. Good luck!

my six month old DS doesn't like naps either. I can tell that he is naturally tired at around 11:30am and 2:30pm but if conditions aren't perfect for him to drift off, he will just skip the nap entirely. And if he does nap, it's unlikely to be for more than 30 minutes, though he can sleep for two hours at the second nap if the stars align.

I've tried lots of things but I've pretty much given up and let him do what he wants. The buggy is the best place to get him to sleep but I really want him to get used to his cot.

He's also up lots in the night for feeds, but we have moved him to his own room a week ago and we are working on cutting those down to one between midnight and 6am.

no real advice for you but i agree with other posters that some babies just don't seem to need as much sleep as others and it may be pointless to force it.

i've tried that rocking, etc. for two hours thing and it is just so depressing.

Of course the most frustrating thing is when you are up half the night and just wish they would take a nap during the day so you could get some sleep yourself ...

oh - as far as sleep associations - i've also started singing him a specific lullaby at night and for attempted naps - maybe it will click at some point!

Thanks everyone for your advice and support. I was really having a rough day possibly explained by the appearance of his first two teeth the day after I posted. Having said that it's been a long term problem that he fights sleep.

However we've had a breakthrough, tonight he went to sleep in his own cot in his own room with no rocking for the first time

This is what worked for us.....
One night last week after a feed at about 3am, exhausted and fed up of rocking I put him down in his bedside cot with his light show and lay down in bed next to him. It took an hour for him to go to sleep and went along the lines of lots of rolling around, thumping legs on the mattress, then he got really tired, then he got angry then he got upset, then very upset, then tired again then he just went to sleep. It was difficult but didn't feel like CC as I was there, holding his hand, talking to him, stroking him.
The next day I tried it at nap time and it followed the same pattern but took 20 mins. I've done it for all naps since and our best is 6 mins!! I couldn't believe it. Having said that it was back to an hour again on Sat, but at least I was lying down relaxing.

I've found that leaving him to do his own thing and just being there to reassure him seems to work. I was surprised that left to his own devices he's been falling asleep on his side and I've found that when he stirs in the night if I roll him on his side he goes back to sleep much faster.

I've been encouraging him to form an attachment with a rabbit he has but he's not been too interested and whilst going through the "angry" bit of going to sleep he tends to throw it across the cot, I keep giving it back to him and he does seem slowly to be treating it better!

Today I tried giving him a muslin that I'd slept with, he played peekabo with it for 20 mins and for the first time ever fell asleep without a single tear. Tonight I was brave and put him down in his own cot in his own room, still sat with him though and held his hand through the bars when he wasn't rolling around or playing peekabo with the muslin. He was asleep in 30 mins with no tears.

The plan is to keep going slowly and to see if I can start to give him less reassurance then move across the room, then out. Feels like there is still a long way to go (dummy still needs to be replugged) but really think things are improving and there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Help! Just joined on the advice of a friend and reading your messages I am even more confused. I have seven month old who has started waking every one to two hours. He too has been breast fed and associates the breast with going to sleep. I too have tried Pantley but no great progress there.

To be honest - its worse now than when he was first born for sleep deprivation, and its beginging to affect my ability to have fun with him during the day - because I am so tired.

I had always been adamant that I would not let him cry to sleep, but am begining to feel backed into a corner.

I have just read The Good Sleep Guide by Angela Henderson who allows me to see I have trained my child (inadvertantly) to develop these habits, and he is unable to self sooth or sleep. Lots of stuff about cring is OK and infact important to allow your child to release stress and express emotions, whilst changing behaviour.

My husband and I am thinking of using her sleep programme starting this weekend. Basicallly it involves allowing your child to cry witrh reassurance but no picking up, gradually increasing the time out of the room. I am supposed to stay away as he will smell my breast milk. VERY succinct version! Trouble is I feel crap: when I see my litttle boy look up to me from his sleep for comfort, it melts my heart. I can not decide if this is the right thing to do, but I can not continue as we are for all our sakes.

Friends/health visitor/doctor assure me it will all be over in three days and we will all be happier...is this true? Does any one have any advice or have they used Angela Hendersons book/gone through something similar and come out the other side?

No spell check - please bare with me!

Hi minty - you may get more useful replies if you repost as a new thread, or what you've written above might get missed on here. Sorry I don't have anything more useful for you!