I am considering spending £200 on someone to tell me how to get my son to sleep better - am I mad?

[2pt4kids]

Dont know what else to do. He is nearly a year old and still wakes up as often as a newborn. I have matchsticks in my eyes.

Have had a sleep sprcialist recommended to me (on here) that doesnt just recommend controlled crying (which I cant do. I am just too soft).

What if she doesnt help though and I am down £200 and still getting no sleep?

I'm not sure thats its a simple case of him being dependent on the dummy. He wakes up sometimes for his dummy, but other times settles himself, so isnt totally dependent on it. He usually wakes up with his head rammed against the cot bars where he wriggles and then I move him and give him the dummy and he settles straight away. If I take away the dummy then what if he wakes up when he bangs his head anyway and takes even longer to settle???

Plus he still has bottles in the night
I am very nervous of stopping these. For one because he would scream probably all night and I cant bear that and also mainly because he's a dinky little thing on the charts and he will drink NO milk at all except for what he has in the middle of the night!
He obviously still needs milk at his age so if I stop all night feeds then he will not be getting what he needs!

He eats a healthy balanced diet for his solid meals, but he has a small appetite so doesnt eat a large quantity of food.

This is his routine for the last few days (I have made a note). Please offer any advice/tips before I blow any chance of a holiday this year on paying this sleep lady to advise me!!!!!

Day 1
Wake 7.30am
Nap 10-11.30am
Nap 2-4.30pm
Bed 7pm
12pm Bottle
1am wake, settled with dummy
4am bottle
7.30 wake & bottle

Day 2
Wake 7.30am
Nap 11.45-1.15pm
Bed 6.15pm
9pm wake, settled with dummy
10pm bottle
3am wake, settled with dummy
4am bottle
6.30am wake (refused bottle)

Day 4 (I forgot to write down day 3 lol)
Wake 8am
Nap 12pm -1.30pm
Bed 6.30pm
8pm wake, settled with dummy
12pm bottle
4.30am bottle
7am wake (refused bottle)

Help!

hello - might I suggest a bit more struture in his day?

How old is he exactly??? If coming up for a year, he may benefit from one long nap in the day after his lunch??? You are good at getting up at the same sort of time, and seem to have a bedtime routine which is all good. Plus, have you tried him in a grobag? He might be waking up as he is cold???

Plus, I also think he is having 2 many bottles in the night (as do you). This would also impact on how he eats in the day, as to much milk will fill him up and so consequently, he won't be hungry.

Maybe try this:

7-70am up bottle but only after having had his breakfast

Snack mid morning then lunch around 12ish. Then a good 2 hour nap.

I also find that a bedtime routine helps as well - so always do a bath, even if a quick one........

Regarding the dummy - he does sound dependant on it, but at this age, i would imagine he is able to put it back in himself? Sorry, can't really help on that one but I am sure someone else will

cant offer any real advice, other than you need to start and wean off night feeds, its probably waking him up. Also on day 1 imo 2-4.30 was too long a nap? Ds dropped his afternoon nap at 1.

Not sure whether i would get someone in just yet, ds is 21 months and still wakes to be settled 2 or 3 times a night.. And starts the day at 5.30am,
I dont see how anyone can stop them from waking, especially if they settle straight away?

He is 11 months (just)

He does have a grobag and I dont think that he is cold at night, but good suggestion. Wll pop a thermometer in his room tonight to double check temp.

Its going to be very hard to get him in a more structured routine. I also have a 3 yr old who is in pre-school some days and has activities other days so have to do lots of pick ups and going out and about.

With the bottles - I have real trouble getting him to drink during the day. He had his last bottle at 4.30am this morning and I am 100% sure he will refuse any more milk all day, even at bedtime.
I guess I'd have to refuse him the milk in the night then to get him to be hungry first thing in the morning, although I still dont think he'd accept any more milk than one morning feed if so.

Perhaps the only solution is to go cold turkey on milk and dummies and just let him cry all night till he is back on track for milk in the day?

How long day time naps would be recommended for a 11mo old do you think?

I've always been a 'let them sleep and feed whenever and as long as they want' kind of parent, which worked perfectly with DS1 but is biting me on the bum now!
I'm terrible at routines!

both my DC's slept after lunch for 2-2 and half hours until well over 2. went to bed at 7 every night and slept through. also have a 12w old who is sleeping 7pm-7am with a feed at 1030pm before we go to bed. I have school/nursery drop offs, plus after school clubs, but find that following a routine keeps everyone and everything on track.......

i am huge fan of routine - cat me if you want more detailedb help...

our 11 month old was still on 2 bottles a night, now he has one, usually around 5:30am. To some people that will sound like hell, but it's SO much better.

We didn't go cold turkey on the 1am bottle, but gradually decreased it byt 1/2 oz every couple of days. Only took a week, but by the time we were down to 2oz bottles he'd stopped waking up (we gave him water after he'd had his quota of milk, incase he was still thirsty).

I know we were relatively lucky with that, but it really did work a treat. Google Goodenoughmum and look for her night weaning story, really helped me

oh, and for every oz decreased in the night feed, I added to his day feeds. I know he's refusing milk during the day at the moment, but you'll probably find that if you're decreasing the night feeds then he'll want more during the day.

Failing that, you could always just give him a bit more milk on his breakfast.

Can you try 1 nap a day
and then bottle at bed time no more until next day

Keep more than 1 dummy in cot so theres always one there!

T would be abit reluctant to spend 200, but then again I don't have a spare 200

Could you try a gradual approach (this is based on precisely no experience, just stealing ideas from friends who have had similar problems)?

I guess the first problem is getting him to take some milk during the day, as you're not going to have the confidence to be super tough during the night until he's taking something during the day. Probably if you left him to scream all night he'd take more in the morning, but you clearly (and understandably!) don't want to do that.

For instance, you know that having a bit less milk for a week isn't going to damage him, and having slightly less solids also isn't going to so could you try:
*offering a third less for the night time bottles

• offer him slightly less solids at all his meals and offer milk before and after *what solids you do give, bulk out with formula (porridge etc), and give yoghurts, cheese etc *although you say structuring the day is hard, can you try to set a mental limit on his naps? not sure how much a baby his age should be having, but my DS is just over 4 months, and if he has over 3.5 hours during the day he wakes raring to go at about 4:30am (although seems to be able to function on freakishly little sleep anyway, so not sure he's a good example!). So if you're waiting for your older DC or something, get him up out of the car seat and play if you know he'll go over his nap time if he's left in it. *consider not feeding him after a certain time (e.g. 3am) so that he has some enthusiasm for a morning bottle, getting him into the habit of at least one bottle during daylight hours.

WRT the OP, I think it depends on whether you're ready to solve it, and are committed to it. I spent £85 on a Sleep Nanny consultation (just over the phone) and then never took ANY of her advice.

And dd still doesn't sleep through.

Right!

Thank you all. Some very good suggestions here.

I think I know that I need to do something but I am still all of a dither as to what to do first iyswim.
I think I am just waiting for someone to say to me 'Do this first, then this, then this and in 1 week he will be sleeping through'
Which is perhaps a little unrealistic.

I just dont know where to start!

Do I start with the night feeds or the dummy?
I'm guessing the night feeds.
If so, do I start by upping milk during the day (by stealth in his food and by offering before solids etc) or do I just start reducing amount given at night? or both together?

Or should I start by setting a routine during the day with different nap times etc and then follow on with the night training afterwards?

Its all a bit of a viscious circle really as I'm really tired in the day time and he goes down for a nap so beautifully and goes to bed at night so easily I cant bear to take away the dummy and deal with that during te day as well as being up in the night.
But obviously i need to, to stop the night wakings from happening sorry I am waffling in my sleep deprived state!

Dozymare- I will cat you, thank you!

If he is virtually one, then milk should become less of his 'food' and he should be having more grub. Having so many bottles at night will definitely impact on his daytime appetite. If he is eating a good and varied diet then he doesn't need gallons of milk. By one it would be fine for him to have a cup of milk with his breakfast, milk when he goes for his nap, then milk at bedtime. Weaning off the night bottles is really hard, you can either go cold turkey and just not give them, or gradually reduce the volume or water them down.

Also if mornings are do-able, try and have a structured wakeful morning - get out and let him do his activities if possible in the morning, home for lunch, then down for a nap in the afternoon. Then off to bed as normal. I would worry about the dummy once his night bottles have stopped otherwise you are removing two of his comforters.

Hi 2.4

I don't think you're mad at all - well worth £200 to start getting a good nights sleep...but I agree with the others that have commented that there are lots of things you can try first.

I just wanted to add that, you may already have them, but I find the advice in: The No Cry Sleep Solution, The Baby Whisperer Solves all your Problems and The Contented Little Baby (controversial on this site I know), invaluable for finding ways to drop feeds, improve naps with my LO.

Good luck, I'm sure things will get better.

Hi 2.4

I don't think you're mad at all - well worth £200 to start getting a good nights sleep...but I agree with the others that have commented that there are lots of things you can try first.

I just wanted to add that, you may already have them, but I find the advice in: The No Cry Sleep Solution, The Baby Whisperer Solves all your Problems and The Contented Little Baby (controversial on this site I know), invaluable for finding ways to drop feeds, improve naps with my LO.

Good luck, I'm sure things will get better.

have emailed you

GF was a god-send to us with all 3 kids. Got 3 v.happy babies now

Why are you still giving him bottles in the middle of the night?

(No, "He wants it" is not a valid answer)

I would start weaning night feeds first - an ounce each night, and then you will find eventually he will take more in the day - offer more at each bottle by same amount you have reduced.

napping - i think half and hour max morning nap - about 2/2 half hours after he got up, and then 1 and half to two hours after lunch. you could try just having an aftee lunch nap but he may be too young for that.

good luck!

Am I the only one who thinks that is a great nights sleep for an 11 month old?

The only thing i would suggest is keep him up a bit later and give him bottle and supper.

Wow, this site is great for good advice isn't it? £200 is a lot of money! But I guess it's not much to ay to feel human again! It is robably a case of you being too tired to know what's best to do so where do you you start?

I would definitely start with the milk. Try and reduce it at night and increase it in the day. I don't know the best way to do this but however you decide to do it, stick to it. It's confusing if one night you givehim milk and one night you don't. My gut instinct would be to take it away altogether. You can still sit with him while he cries (so much easier said than done). I had the dummy problem and we got a Sleepytot Comforter, put the dummie son it, showed our DS how to use it and within a couple of nights he'd worked that one out. At frist he tried to take the dummies off and got a bit frustrated but after awhile, he realised this was a nice way to go back to sleep and he loves his Sleepytot now. By the way, when I bought our Sleepytot, I emailed them for some advice on how to use it and got loads of sleep advice. They say they aren't experts but the advice they gave me was great and my DS sleeps like a dream now - and it was free Sleepytot Baby Comforter.

Also, I would stick with two naps whilst he is getting settled as he will be tired in the day until you get him sleeping all night. You could make the afternoon one a short 45 min nap and the morning one a longer one. It must be hard with an older child though!

Good luck.

agree - I would start the night weaning first. It won't magically make him sleep through, but it will start to help.

We found that as soon as DS wasn't waking in the night from hunger, he found it easier to settle himself even if he had lost his dummy (and yes, keep another one in the cot for him to find in the middle of the night )

IMO - tackle ONE thing at a time (eg night weaning) and don't worry about the other problems yet.

dozy - I think you're extremely lucky to have 3 very good sleepers. I am

Thing is... all of this could work a treat, you could have a week (yes, a whole week!) of DD sleeping through and then something could happen (starting nursery in our case) and you're back to 6 x a night wakings.

Sorry - it's been a VERY long day

Here's that night weaning post in a blog I read (very good blog too).

goodenoughmummy.typepad.com/good_enough_mum/2008/11/the-night-weaning-story.html

I found it extremely helpful. It's quite long, but because she goes into so much detail it makes a lot of sense and hopefully will help you too. think her DD was about 11 months old in this post as well.

Poor you. I had 3 good sleepers and one dreadful one. what did strike me about your routine is the changes in daytime routine and quite a lot of naps in the day. I know it's tricky - i have a pre-school run and a'noon school run, but I think it would be really worthwhile consolidating naps into one early lunchtime nap. Or maybe limiting the morning nap to half an hlur/40mins in the morning -say post pre-school run, so he's fresh and awake a.m., likely to play, eat lunch, be ready for longer p.m. sleep followed by milk, then play and tea. I really find that my youngest would have more but if she does she wakes more at night and earlier the next day. even if you have to slightly alter your a'noons for a period of time I think it would be worth giving a go. Saying that, when I'm realyy slepp deprived and she' was asleep in the morning I found it so hard waking her after 30m mins because I needed some resty!! Good luck.

I'm starting to feel more clear about things after re-reading all these lovely helpful posts!
Milsy, I dont know why but your post just struck a chord with me and so I'm going to follow what you say!!
I'm going to work on the night weaning first. I have decided to go the easier route of diluting the milk in increasing amounts instead of cold turkey.. starting tonight!

Once he is off milk at night and happy with that then I will think about the dummy.

I have also just ordered one of those sleepytot comforteres! Have never heard of them before but what a fantastic idea! Hope it works for us!!

Dozy - thanks so much for your email. I am going to re-read tonight and work out a routine for us based on bits of it, thank you.

Christmas penguin - thanks for the link. I am bookmarking it to have a good read later too.

I will try and keep you all updated with how the different ideas are working!!!