Officially desperate

[babaduck]

I have a 10 month old DD2, co-sleep, breastfed, terrible terrible terrible sleeper.
In short, she goes down to sleep at about 7.30pm, wakes screaming 30 mins later, then wakes approx every 1 to 2 hours til morning. I think we've tried everything, feeding, not feeding, in the bed, out of bed, patting shushing, lavender, cranio-sacral. The paediatricain think she has reflux, but shes on Losec for ages, no change. At the mo, I feed her, sometimes she goes back to sleep, sometimes not and I have to rock her to sleep. DH is fantastic at night, but even he is thoroughly fed-up, and you can imagine the rows we are so tired. I wrapped my mobile phone the other day, put it in the fridge thinking it was cheese. ANY suggestions PLEASE? sorry for long msg.

You have my deepest sympathy babaduck. go back to paed. Insist on more tests. what is she like during the daytime?

I have no advice sadly, but I wanted to offer you my sympathies. We are in a similar situation - only DS2 is now 18mo (and sat up next to me on the sofa after yet another bout of D&V). DH and I are really on the edge!

Thanx y'all (as Barack would say, given it's the day it is). Mckenzie, she's a placid happy little thing by day. Naps are pretty poor, so by 4pm she's tired and clingy so is carried for the rest of the day. All 10kg+ of her. Last night, DH was so fed-up he wanted me to wean her. (I fed DD1 til she was 3 years). We had the mother and father of all rows, and normaly we don't. I am so tired. Once I gave her to DH in the mid of night, I was so cross with her I wanted to pinch her. Felt awful, and at least I had the sense to give har to DH, but I was so fed-up of it. There she goes again. Off I go.

when did you last try cranial and was it by someone who was recommended?

If it was me babaduck, I would be hammering on the paed's door for them to do some more tests and if I could afford it I would try some more cranial osteopathy. From the little I know I wouldn't have thought your breast milk could be the cause in which case weaning onto formula won't help but then again, you wont know until you try. Could you express for a few days to keep your supply up and try a formula? At least then you can tick that box to say you tried it and DH will be appeased. Just thinking outloud here babaduck, feel free to ignore any or all of this message

Poor you. Sounds tough.

How does she get off to sleep at night in the first place? Before she wakes?

baba, I don't have any advice other than to reassure you she will grow out of it.
Sleep deprivation caused so many rows and so much tension for us.
It is very hard to hang on to your sanity, but this will pass.
Try to be kind to each other (you and dh)

babaduck - my DS was like this too. In the end we started by dealing with daytime naps first, because we had slighly more energy/willpower then than at 2am. We introduced two naps at fixed times, made sure that he didn't fall asleep on the breast and tried to put him into his cot awake for naps even if he was upset for a few minutes before falling asleep. As his daytime naps improved his general mood improved and he started sleeping longer at night. We did all this with the support of a health visitor who specialised in sleep issues - is there someone like that who could help. It's really hard when you've had no sleep for months!

You sound just like me and my poor Dh he feels like he's useless as our ds only wants me at night because of co sleeping. He has chicken pox at the moment so is undertandably clingy but the no sleep at night has been going on for so long we are constantly rowing over it. Honestly i got to the point this morning where i felt i could't go on. I really don't know what to do now its really frustrating.

Thanx everyone for the support. Also nice to know I'm not the only one. The cranial osteopath was v expensive, came highly recommeded, has 6 sessions, in fairness we used to get 1 or 2 nights sleep after a session but that was it, even the cranio woman suggested it wasn't working. That's quite a while ago, when you mention it again, I might give it another go if we can afford. Around here there's not alot of support from services. Am so sick of getting "why isnt she sleeping" and "so-and-so is sleeping since 4 months" and now all I hear is what am I doing wrong. We are totally fed-up, cranky, and like you shomes, constantly arguing. Not a happy house. Have been doing the NCSS for nearly 3 weeks, little or no change, will persist but am losing faith, DD is proving to be a determined character. DH generally v calm with the kids, but is v cranky with them now. I'll keep with the NCSS, go to the Paed again, think about cranial.
Sorry for the grumble. Saves a row with DH!

keep grumbling at us babaduck. We dont mind.

Umm have you tried just leaving her to cry it out? We got to wits end with my second daughter and in the end I thought I will just leave her and see what happens. She went berserk the first two nights, less bad the second, only woke crying once the 4th and then slept through.

She still gets bad again after she has been ill, because of course I see to her in the night when she is ill. We have to do it again when she is fully better.

I think they just learn what works. Co-sleeping is difficult though as you can't lie there next to them and listen to them cry.

Could you settle her into another room for a bit and continue settling her when she wakes in the night for a week or so, then do the erm kind of uncontrolled crying type thing.

Helps if you have a big house so can get out of ear shot, if you do that and leave em for 20 minutes then go back they have usually gone off to sleep.

babaduck i feel your pain. ds never slept much and fed every 2 hours for the first 9m. i've blanked out the screaming bit but oh there was much of it.

it all got so much better as soon as he could move and release more energy. have you tried swimming? with hindsight i may have persevered with naps a bit more, but not sure it would have worked.

ds is now 3.7, sleeps 7pm till 6.30am no waking or straight back to sleep if he does.

Hi,

Is it possible that her reflux is caused by cows milk intolerance? It would explain the frequent waking. The way to find out is to cut all dairy out of yours and her diet for two weeks. If it makes a difference you'll know it was the culprit, if nothing changes then go back to eating dairy again.

Good luck, I do know how it feels, DD1 was a hideous sleeper and I don't know how I survived sometimes.

Hi, we have a 2 yr old who is exactly the same and has been since birth. Last night he cried 8 times, not really awake but somethings upsetting him. To be honest I havent pushed it with the docs but reading all these msgs I'm going tomorrow. I completely understand where you are coming from its so hard when you are so tired. We have gone onto Soya which seemed to make a difference but not drastic. I'll let you know how I get on. Good Luck

Terrible night tonight, have been up to her 4 times already, but I think she's teething, in fairness to her. We're in for a night, I'd say.

Hi greenmonkies, gave up dairy, wheat and citrus for 2 weeks, no measurable difference except one crankier momma missing her chocolate.

Can't do the cry-it-out thing, really goes against the grain with me but (I can't believe it) I'm beginning to think about it.
We try her in the cot every so often, mainly DH, and she's much worse. I suppose she's used to us now. Tho I don't know what the "us" is, DH and I are rarely in the same bed for more than 1 hour. Alot of moving about happens at night here. She has the most fierce cry, it's impossible to ignore. And it really sounds like something is wrong. Tho she's so healthy to look at, and nearly walking. The sooner the better, tire her out hopefully. Good idea re swim, but I have my doubts, no other "tire her out" activity has worked. Still, something to try.
DD1 was a poor sleeper, but this is much worse. The thought of the next 2 or 3 years is terrifying. Will have to do something. Let me know if you find an answer vamking.
Thanx y'all. Great to be able to ramble.

Hi
I'd re-iterate what flum said. I'm not keen on co-sleeping anyway - total disruption for all. They are all different but they also need to know a sense of boundary ( and also how do you think parents of 4 or 5 manage?!) Put it into perspective and help her learn that when its bed time - she sleeps. But loads of sympathy - and grit.
No criticism intended just a bit of practicality

babaduck - Could she maybe be overtired? I find my DS sleeps much worse on the nights I think he will be exhausted because he's missed a nap or had a busy day or whatever. He wakes up LOADS on nights like that. Do you have a nap routine or anything? It can also be nice to go to bed yourself for a couple of hours with them in the morning or afternoon We co-sleep as well and I'm def not into CC so for me it was just a case of learning to watch for his tired signals and catching him and putting him to bed - even if it wasn't a typical time. Also found that doing shifts the odd night with DH helped - ie. he would sleep in the other room and then we would swop for a couple of hours so I could get some sleep - obviously had to swop after DS had fed because there was no point in DH trying to settle a hungry baby!

Also, can I just say daffodil that as a family we get a lot more sleep by co-sleeping - definitely less disruption for all Each to their own and all that!

I think you're right bubbleymummy, she is overtired. But I watch her like a hawk and still can't seem to get it right, she is incredibly resistant to sleep, even in the sling. last night was v poor, woke 4 times before midnight, then 2am, 4 am, 5am, 5.50am, 6.30am, 6.50am for the day. Each waking is about 20 mins, and she doesn't fall asleep easily on the breast, it involves rocking etc. I think she "naps" all night,iykwim. Am going to try and go to bed now. I think it's a disaster. DH is v good at night (even if we're rowing) so at least I have that. I'll keep going. The sooner she walks....

Hi,
this is my first post. Just wondered if you've heard of the book 'The No cry Sleep solution'. I'm following it right now and it has some great suggestions.

Hi,

I have the same problem with my almost 10 month old DS. I haven't had a full night's sleep since he was 6 months old. Before that he was a decent sleeper, almost slept through. Have no idea what made him change!!

What we did to survive was we sidecarred his cot, similar to
this.

This gave us the extra space we needed and also, once I fed DS and put him in the crib then he wasn't so disturbed by our movements.

DS has always fed to sleep but lately I have tried feeding and then putting him down awake in his cot and lying on the bed next to him and pretend to sleep. I turn on his night cot music thing and he looks at it, shouts a little. If he start to cry hysterically I try to distract him by pointing at the lights and talking. Usually this calms him, i pretend to sleep and he self soothes to sleep. This doesnt work every time but he's starting to get the picture!!! Try to do similar thing for naps.

Whenever he sleeps like this he seems to sleep a bit longer than usual. Hope this helps.

I am so sorry to hear about what you are going through but I am also so so relieved. My DS is 11 months. He settles at around 8/ 8:30pm then will wake-up between 9:30-9:45pm.He then sleeps for 2-3 hours then wakes up continually through the night. Similar to babaduck we have tried everything. I thought about getting some lavender balm too but its good to know it probably will not work. I am beginning to get depressed and will see my GP plus I am not eating well. I feel caught up in a vicious circle. I hope my DS?s sleeping pattern improves. But it is good to know that I am not alone. Thanks!!

you are def not alone. DD is 18 months now and STILL wont sleep through. we too have tried everything (excpet letting her cry it out). we dont co sleep anymore as she was obviously disturbed by me and DH, but she was in a cot in our room.

in the end, DH and i got a nanny who takes alternate nights with her so we could just get a break. it made a HUGE difference to us and now after about 2 months of it, we are back to feeling human and after this holiday will try to tackle it all over again......i suspect we are going to try the crying it out method simply because its the only thing we havent tried yet.

you have my fullest sympathies

...and my fullest sympathies too! DD2 is 6 months, and is just the same - sometimes she goes for 2 hours as soon as she goes down, but it's all downhill from there. Have to start working again vv soon and think I may DIE. DD1 was a terrible sleeper too and is now 3 and pretty good, really - I just keep remembering that so I know it's not forever. THough it is a killer, I do think the up-side is that they know exactly how loved they are - people always say how secure DD1 is, and she's never had a tantrum or anything - I like to think it's because she neve had to cry for me in the night!... just trying to look for a silver lining or two...

I am having similar problems with my ds 9m. We go to an osteopath in london through a charity so you pay by donation. I usually pay about £5 per session. Im very pleased with it although my ds still does not sleep. fpo.org.uk if you are near london it might save you some money.