What am I doing wrong!!!??

[pigleychez]

My DD is 5mths and we have never had a full nights sleep!

We started to do well at about 3mths doing 11-5 but that was only for a few nights and its been worse ever since.

Generally she wakes for a feed every 3 hours, Occasionally she will go longer- up to 6 hours but this is very rare and can never seem to be replicated the next night, no matter what we try.
Lately it has seemed to get worse and she is waking every 2/2.5 hours for feeds.
She doesnt take that much for her night feeds but on the plus side does "usually" go back off straight away.

If anyone has the secret for a sleeping baby then id love to know!!

Im not greedy for a complete night (though would be nice!) Id be happy with just the one waking.

Anyone!?

it sounds fairly usual which is no consolation i know

DS slept through at around 6/7 months - he was hungry and needed feeding until then

If she feeds and goes straight back to sleep then she needs it

if you breastfeed, why don't you co-sleep?

Yes, it's very usual, but I won't give the usual advice passed around on MN (co-sleeping, breastfeeding on demand, 'it's normal') because I realize that advice is not suitable for everyone.

So, here's a few questions. When you say, 'no matter what we try'- can I ask, what have you tried to encourage longer sleep at night? Have you tried a particular method? Just thought it might be useful if you give us an idea of what you've done so far. Also, can I ask, is she breastfed? If bottlefed, how much does she usually take in her bottle during the day? And is her weight gain ok?

Our baby also slept a bit better until 3 months but then his sleep became worse & worse. After 3 months (and especially after 4 months) they grow a lot & have very big needs in milk, so basically if your daughter is not getting enough milk during the day, she'll be making up for it at night (hence the night wakings). What has helped things a lot (in the last 3 weeks or so) is an active effort on my part to improve my DS's eating during the day, not only be putting him to the breast a lot (at least every 3 hours, often more) but also by expressing quite a bit to increase my supply in the day, because I found my supply was big at night & much smaller in the day, leading to a vicious cycle. This system has worked surprisingly well for us, we very quickly have gone down to one feed in the night after the 11 o'clock feed, and he's now sleeping 5-6 hour stretches every night, which is fantastic. We're actually co-sleeping (after 11 or so, 7-11 he's in his cot) but the co-sleeping didn't stop my DS from waking all these months, and is now not affecting his good stretch of sleep, so I think the co-sleeping is irrelevant to be honest.

Please let us know a bit more about the details of your daughter's sleep pattern, & I'm sure you'll get some good advice.

How does she go to sleep at nap times & bed times, does she feed herself to sleep or does she get laid down awake and self settle?

Do you put her down awake? Or do you feed her to sleep?

Could she be cold and need a warm body to get her back to sleep?

Thanks ladies,

In reply to your questions.

DD is bottlefed. She feeds 3ish hourly throughout the day and takes 5/6 ozs. Past few days its been abit of a struggle to get that much in her as shes stopped dead on 3ozs! Howeve when she was drink full 6 ozs bottle every feed, it made positive effect on her sleep.
Her weight gain is fine hovering between the 25th and 50th percentile.

Things weve tryed :

More sleep during the day.
Less sleep during the day.
Naps in the cot in her room.
Naps downstairs on a floor cushion with TV on so she doesnt have such a deep sleep.
Fresh air/walk everyday.
Having a heater on in her room overnight.
Adding more layers (vests ect).

Contemplaiting trying replacing her night feeds with with water but not untill her day feeds are back to normal.

Bedtime, she goes to bed at 8pm. Has a feed then put in her cot. Lullaby goes on, lights off, leave the room and within about 10 minutes and a little sleepy whinge shes goes of on her own. So thats fab.

I know it could be worse but the sleep deprivation is really getting to me at the mo.

Unfortunately I think you are going to have to do the opposite; retrict the quantity of milk during the night to up her feeding during the day so she stops needing it at night.

During her night feeds she will only take 3ozs MAX! usually about 2ozs.

I think this makes it more frustrating as is there really any need to wake up just for that!

Hi again,

You say she feeds 3-hourly or so? One idea (since she's not taking that much milk in each feed) would be to space out the feeds a bit more, moving towards 4-hourly feeds. She may not be that hungry at the 3 hour mark. I remember reading in the baby whisperer book that by 4 months most babies (particularly bottle-fed ones, where you know what they're taking in) are ready to gradually go to feeds every 4 hours. If they don't, and remain on a every-3-hour schedule (again this is from the BW book), they start waking more at night. This is because they basically are not that hungry at each feed, but when they move to every-4 hours-feeds they tend to take more per feed, feel more satisfied, and tend to have longer naps, and better sleep at night. I'm not sure I understand exaclty how the whole thing works, because I've been bf my baby (and with bf babies it's a bit harder to move to 4 hourly feeds) but I'm pretty sure it's something you can try. You can actually do this bit by bit, holding off the feed for a few more mins each day, reaching your every-4-hours goal soon. Hope this helps!

Hi Maria,

Dont feed her religiously every 3 hours. I let her tell me when shes ready.. which tends to be after 3 hours.

She does go longer sometimes.. ie Today 3 hours would have been 11.30 but fed at 12.15 instead.

We did at one point try leaving her till she was almost screaming for her food but again never seems to make much difference though apart from making her more and more upset.

Hi,

No, I would NEVER suggest you let her screaming for her food!! Just- if you can- do what you're doing, i.e. following her lead about eating, and try to push it back a bit more consistently. I think it's obviously not going to work if she's screaming for her food, and of course you have to make sure she has taken a full, good feed in previous feed in order to go for closer to 4 hours for next feed. Sounds like today this happened on its own accord Hope things get better soon, I know how awful sleep deprivation is... and I hope you get more ideas here.

Perhaps you hould try just giving her water or watered down formula at night then. I till wonder if it is just part of her settling her back to self routine, she is comfort sucking and having some milk in her belly that relaxes her enough to go back to sleep.

Hi Pigleychez,

I'm afraid I don't have any extra advice - I just wanted to say: me too! Reading your posts was like reading about my own DS (7mo). The only difference is that he is breastfed.

I don't know how much he takes at night - if, by some miracle, he does only wake once between 7 and 7 (it has happened about 6 times ever), he definitely has a good feed and that's fine. But he does seem to take less the more he wakes up and last night, after him waking up every hour and a half three times, I almost forced him to have some of boob 2 (there wasn't loads in either) and then he went four hours, which felt blissful.

I just don't know how to get more calories in him during the day. He's allergic to dairy, too. Really sorry if this is a hijack - I think we're in the same boat though!

Hi Samjohnsmum,

Sorry to hear your in the same boat too but in some ways im glad its not just us! IFYWIM?!

People have suggested trying DD on solids to help fill her up during the day. Maybe giving babyrice around teatime so shes fuller before bed.
I can see how that might help but I was wanting to do BLW with DD so know that she wouldnt be "eating" any food for a while. Not sre what to do?

Hi Pigley,

Yes, I totally understand!! Sometimes, the thought that everybody's else's baby is doing 'better' than yours is almost the worst thing!!

I've heard mixed opinions on the weaning/sleep thing. Unfortunately, my experience of weaning DS at 6mo (I'm a puree lover though) is that food hasn't really affected his sleep as yet - however, I do know plenty of people who say otherwise and my DS isn't really that interested in food and, as I don't want to force him to eat anything (obv) he still has relatively little food compared to some of my friends' babies who guzzle loads each mealtime!! You'll certainly get plenty of MNers telling you that weaning and sleep are completely unrelated and you shouldn't wean 'early' because of this.

I guess for some babies it does make a difference, but if you want to do BLW, stick with it. I'm afraid I don't know much about FF, but I know people that have used hungry baby formula with good success - have you tried that during the day?

I really hope you get a half decent night tonight!!! Good luck!!

Solid food actually has fewer calories weight for weight than milk, so weaning on to solids (e.g. babyrice at bedtime) won't actually help with hunger at night - it might actually make it worse.

I did BLW with my lo and it was great - I thoroughly recommend it! I carried on with his normal milk feeds for the first two or three months of BLW (he was bf) so didn't need to worry about whether he was eating enough because he could make it up with milk.

Drjane- Yeah I know.. Thats why I wasnt sure about doing it.

Samjohnsmum- Hungry baby formula sounds worth a thought.
Do you think a bottle of it before bed would help fill her up more during the night?

I think the idea is that you replace all your normal feeds with it, although perhaps not the night ones for you - but I really don't much about it I'm afraid because I'm still BFing and when I make up DS's cereal with formula I have to use the soya stuff.

It sounds like it might be worth a chat with your HV or maybe asking a question about it on the BF/FF thread. I'm sure there would be someone there who knows more about it and it might well be worth a go - you never know!!

Congratulations, you have a perfectly normal and healthy 5 month old who is probably in the midst of a growth spurt. You're not doing a thing wrong.