Desperate for Advice (but not advice to co-sleeep) 6 months old still not sleeping. Think I will drop dead from lack of sleep.

[needahand]

Hi all I am desperate for some advice to try and get our 6.5 months old to sleep. Since he has been born he has only slept through 6 times in total. I am so tired from lack of sleep (I haven't had a proper night sleep in more than a year due to SPD pain in pregnancy) sometimes I feel I will drop dead in the street.

He can wake from 3 to 7 times a night. At the moment he is slightly better he only wakes about once at 3.00 am on the dot.Last night he was up for more than two hours, then by the time I get back to sleep the alarm rings again and I have to get up to go to work.

We did try control crying last week. He cried two nights (first night 1h30mn, next night 45 mn) and then slept through for three nights in a row but now it is back to square one.

Before we tried control crying, he used to wake up at least three times. We stopped giving him milk during the night about 3 weeks ago.

We have tried patting him to sleep, rocking him, walking him in his pram etc..

Are there any books I could try? Any routine? Any advice? I am desperate really.

Don't want any advice on co-sleeping though. I am a very very bad and light sleeper and on the few occasions DS came in our bed out of desperation, I couldn't sleep a wink through fear of rolling on him or something, so it is really not for me.

Sorry for long post

Trying to stay awake by bumping this thread. Anyone? Please?

Some people (not me!) will tell you that this is normal and healthy, but it clearly isn't doing you any favours at all, so if there's anything you can do to solve it, I would...

Eliminating the obvious:

• Is he teething?
• is he genuinely hungry? i.e. does he nod off as soon as he's fed, rather than staying awake for hours?
• Is he napping too much/little during the day? how much does he sleep?
• Do you do a dreamfeed or anything? I know people often don't need this once baby's on solids, but just wondering.

Do you have a DP/H who helps?

Oh, and did he suddenly start waking after the CC, or did he gradually ease out of it? Could his sleeping through have been disrupted by teething or cold or something, and now he's back in the habit? Could you face another bout of CC if you felt that this was the case?

Hopefully thanks so much for not ignoring me!

• I think he is teething as his first tooth came out last week but he doesn't seem too bothered about it during the day, and as soon as you pick him up he is as happy as Larry
• I don't think he is genuinely hungry as sometimes he doesn't finish his bottle if offered. He did have a bit of water last night (I thought that after two hours of crying/winging he was probably thirsty). He is on solids and has three meals a day and three bottles.
• during the day he has about three naps: two of 20/30 minutes and one of 1hour sometimes a bit more. He is not a great sleeper at the best of time. He is a very light sleeper (like me). Even the slightest creaking sound can wake him up.
• we don't dreamfeed him. I wonder if I should. I read somewhere that some people wake their babies up at 11pm to give them a bottle and wonder if I should do that?

My DH is very supportive and does his share. Last night he did the controlled crying (whereas the other times it was me who did it. I wonder if there is a connection there). But there is not much he can do as even when he is on duty I can still hear my DS (despite sleeping with earplugs). Then it takes ages for me to fall back asleep after the baby is asleep so I only get abut 3 hours a night in total. It is torture, honestly and my DH is getting very tired too.

Any suggestions?

We have only started the CC for six days. Two days he cried, three days he slept, yesterday was complete havoc and towards the end of it I gave up on the CC (after two hours) as DS seemed soo stressed and I felt so bad to let him cry do long.

Before we attempted the CC he only slept through two odd nights. We did do the CC to get him to sleep in the evenings when he was about 3/4 months old as before that getting him in bed before 9 or 10 was a nightmare. He did work and now he happily goes to bed at 7.15 pm every evening without much fuss.

Hello,

Sleep deprivation is not good at all, so I am so sorry you having such a hard time.

It sounds like you have tried lots of different things. My daughter didn't sleep through the night til she was 1, so I'm not the best person to offer advice. But - the thing that worked for us is controlled crying. We had to do it for a week, which was horrendous, but worked. It was a last resort - after a year of sleep deprivation and having to go to work in the morning, I felt as though I would have some kind of breakdown if I didn't get more sleep.

So, my advice is try CC again.

Hey needahand,

It sounds like you have covered most bases and you are pretty much following
the text books. So far so good! (even if it doesn't feel like that at the moment..)

Firstly, I agree with the others: stick to your guns and
keep the message consistent 'night time is for sleeping'.

However, the fact that he cried for 2 hours is not good at all.
2 hours of settling crying strikes me as unlikely.
He was asking for something and you need to figure out what it was.
Ask your dp what your lo's cries sounded like last night.

How do you do CC at the moment?
Do you stay with him during CC? How long do you comfort him when you go in?

Is he getting enough stimulation during the day?
I know it's bitterly cold outside but is he getting enough fresh air during the day?

Could it be that he is napping too often during the day
or that his last nap is too close to his bedtime?

Sorry about all the questions!

If the CC worked for 3 days the only thing you did "wrong" was not to predict that he'd decide to try it on again and see what happens.

So just stick with those CC techniques that worked for him last time and expect it'll be sorted in 3 weeks time. Play the long game!

Waking up at night at 6 months is normal and healthy (nature's way of preventing SIDS). It's not really a problem except when they don't go straight back to sleep, so for the sake of sanity, I'd focus on that rather than try to force your child to sleep through when not necessarily ready to.

Six months is a classic sleep regression age (due to gross motor development, like sitting unaided and being more mobile on the belly) and a growth spurt.

3 meals a day at six months is possibly a bit premature. Unless the poo is coming out like peanut butter (and v. smelly) or in logs, the food is not being digested and it is just making your DS feel full rather than giving him usable calories. I would focus on milk as his main source of nutrition until there's evidence from the nappies that the food he's getting is being digested. For my DS, that was closer to 12 months, but for some children it's much earlier.

Sorry, just saw gagarin's "try it on" -- you really think that a six month old has the mental capacity to "try it on?" Poor thing doesn't even understand that the things he can't see still exist, like his mum when she leaves the room.

Thanks to all for your replies Hashim and DaddyJ I think I will try the CC again. Lest night he was crying then calming down, then crying again but towards the end he stopped calming down and got worse. I did hear him and he sounded stressed which is why I decided to take him and to change his nappy and give him some water. But I think what he really really wanted was a cuddle and er....mummy I guess.

DaddyJ I don't think he is napping too much during the day. He only naps three times (twice 20/30 minutes and once a little longer). He does get fresh air every day and hopefully enough stimulation (I am at work then so hard to be sure)

With regard to how I do CC (and DH should have done it last night). I go in, give baby a kiss and shush him a little whilst patting him on his tummy, then I say something like "time to sleep now baby boy, see you tomorrow" and go. I only stay about one minute. Sometimes when he is nearly dropping off, I stay a little longer. The first half hour I go every 5 minutes, the next half hour I go in every 7 minutes and after that every 10 minutes (unless he gets hysterical in which case I go before 10mn)

Ches I think the problem with DS is that he can't settle back himself on his own. I would say he doesn't know how to self comfort apart from burying his head in his comforter. He has been on 3 meals a day since he was weaned at about 4 months on the advice of the HV. I know you are not supposed to until they are 6 months now but both my kids have other ideas! For Gargarin's defence I would say that my DS is a little cheeky and I wouldn't put that beyhond him

I wonder if last night the CC didn't work because it was DH doing it and not me?

Thanks to all for advice and support I really really appreciate it

ches - I have re-read what I wrote and agree with you that it sounds as though I mean that her ds is "doing it on purpose".

But what I mean is that no baby is going to easily give up being settled by their parents at night. At 6 months some babies can settle on their own and they do have the capacity to learn.

And I don't fully agree that all 6 month old babies think that what they can't see doesn't exist.

More IMO they do know that something is missing and therefore they do know at some level what they are crying for.

I don't think babies are "bad" for yelling for their mothers - and needahand you may be right that your ds couldn't deal with CC when it was his dad because he needs you to settle.

he was so funny when I eventually picked him up. He was cuddled next to me and wasn't moving as if he was thinking "if I don't move, mummy will forget I am here and keep me". Bless him

It is all so hard

Ah bless.
So, needahand, sounds like we found the answer:
for the time being you need to do the sleep training yourself.

Tell you what, though, if you reach 30 minutes
throw in a cuddle and stay with him for a little while.
Poor lad had a rough time last night,
I will keep my fingers crossed for tonight!!

oh god, i don't wanna hijack thread but this sounds like my dd2 who is 6 mths this week.

Since the age of 4 mths, she has not slept more than 3 hrs at a time. At it's worst she has woken every 30-60 mins ( irrespective of feeding)

I started cc for the first part of the night to try and re establish her core sleep. It worked great for a few nights ( cried approx an hr going down then only for 5 mins up to approx 1am and brought her into bed) and then last night she cried for nearly 2 hrs and as I felt the crying was geting worse, I brought her into bed with me.

I am mixed feeding ( formula in day only) and I make a point of not breast feeding her more than twice in the night.

Is it normal for cc to make sleep better and then worse again? I did it with my son at 8 mths age and it was like a miracle and each night we made progress and never went backwards.

Needahand - I hope it is a better night for you and dare I say it? - Happy new Year!!

gagarin decades of child development research has it pretty conclusive that most babies don't start to understand object permanence until closer to 8 or 9 months when they start separation anxiety. It's not beyond the realm of possibility for a 6 month old to have begun to understand object permanence, but it is very unusual.

Very quick reply - i feel for you. Lack of sleep is a killer. We had a similar situation and I used sleepnannies.co.uk. DS (7 mths old) now sleeps through from 8pm to 7am without fail. They were amazing. It's not cheap and I know that at this time of year might not be an option. But if you an afford it, I really recommend it. It cost 80 pounds for three hour long phone calls. Worth every penny....

Have you tried leaving him for longer than 5 mins at first? With my ds, he'd do that on/off crying business and I found that going in every few minutes just dragged the whole process out. As long as he would do the on/off crying I left him and after about 20 mins he was quiet. Not sure if he was asleep I didn't want to tempt fate and check! If he was crying continuously/getting worse then i'd go in and give a cuddle.

I know ches - but I'm talking emotional attachment to a mother figure.

Surely the research refers to the classic looking for dropped objects/playing peebo/lifting cloth from hidden objects etc?

I'm talking about an emotional response to a parental absence - so that a 6 month old baby whose mother is not around will know at some emotional level that what they really need/want isn't there. But intellectually they might not know what it is.

If this is not the case then all babies up to the stage of object permanence would be quite happy without their parents - and we know that is not the case.

Am I making any sense! I sort of wonder.

Hi all

Thanks so much again for the advice and support. Blameitonthebogey I will bear sleep nannies in mind.

I thought I would give you an update. HE SLEPT THROUGH!! TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW!! We didn't have to do anything at all. We went to be at 10 (us not DS) on New Years Eve and not sign of mr baby until 6.10. And this morning he slept until 7.30. So I just the other night was just a bleep and that DS's resolution is now to sleep through. One can hope!!

amujee Hijack away. I hope you'll get some sleep soon too and that the cc or something else will work soon.

Hi all

Thanks so much again for the advice and support. Blameitonthebogey I will bear sleep nannies in mind.

I thought I would give you an update. HE SLEPT THROUGH!! TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW!! We didn't have to do anything at all. We went to be at 10 (us not DS) on New Years Eve and not sign of mr baby until 6.10. And this morning he slept until 7.30. So I just the other night was just a bleep and that DS's resolution is now to sleep through. One can hope!!

amujee Hijack away. I hope you'll get some sleep soon too and that the cc or something else will work soon.

Hi needahand. So glad you got some sleep!

A couple of things you could try to make sure his sleeping through is a permanent thing:

• put something that smells of you in his cot, so that if he does wake up, he can settle more easily again (t-shirt, muslin, etc.)

• (I know it sounds counter-intuitive) get him to nap more in the day. I learnt this from 'Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child', by Marc Weissbluth. He suggests that poor or interrupted sleep at night can be caused by overtiredness - ie. not enough naps during the day. Although I don't follow his plans to the letter, I have found that if my DD (7mo) gets 3 naps as he describes (and I work quite hard to make sure she does - putting her in a sling, pushing her around for hours, etc.), then she sleeps much better at night. She's never woken up like your DS, but for a while she would struggle and kick and squeal in her sleep, which I later learnt was overtiredness.

HTH!

Happy New (sleeping!) Year!

Thanks Penthesileia. I have notice that too. Also I have notice that if I put him in bed earlier in the evening he sleeps much better (he really needs to be in bed at 19.00 or 19.30 at the latest. After that things go pear shape). Thanks for the tips about muslin and for the sleep wishes! Happy new year to you too

Happy New Year indeed
Fantastic to hear the news, nolongerneedahand!

amijee, congrats on number 2.
One of each..

Has there been any improvement?
I suppose the questions I put to the op would apply to your lo as well -
can you work out why she cried for so long?

hi daddy!

Nice to see you are still helping out on the cc front!

I'm caught between a rock and a hard place at the moment. My 2.5 yr old ds has recently been moved out of his cot into a cot bed ( trust him to climb out a week before I'm due back at work!) It has played havoc with bed time routine and he is being taken back to his room numerous times and in the middle of the nght so I am loathed to tackle both of them at the same time.

As far as dd is concerned I am trying as much as possible not to bring her into my bed until midnight but she wakes constantly after about 10pm until I bring her in with me.

My own theory about why it isn't working so well is because she has been really tired at bedtime and fsllen straight asleep without even a whimper ( therefore not really awake when put down) I always found with my son, he had a better night when he had "cried down" to go to sleep rather than being so tired he crashed. Does that make sense?

I'm not ready to do cc properly until ds is sorted out, otherwse we will be running between wo rooms!