Nocturnal 8 week old baby.....HELP, I'm at breaking point :0(. Very long and self pitying, sorry.

[TheTwelveDAISYofChristmas]

title says it all really.

Ds is eight weeks old and has been very unsettled since birth with wind, colic and a bit of reflux. He rarely settles in his crib or pram, but is happy semi upright in the bouncy chair and sleeps well all day.

Problem starts with the colic at about 9pm then he is awake until anytime between 3 and 5am..either grizzling and miserable or wide awake and playful.

this was alll fine in the beginning as DH was taking holiday in lieu of notice from his old job and we could all catch up on sleep in the day, but he started a new job on 15th Dec and our day needs to start at 6.30am. I also have two older DCs...one at school and the other only 18months; daytime sleeping when on my own with them is not really an option as DD and DS2s naps never co-incide.

Over the last week we have all been ill, DH with a bad cold, me with tonsilitis on top of two separate tumbles on the stairs wrenching my knee and badly bruising my hip, and the older DCs have colds as well and DD has six teeth coming in at once. We are all tried, sore, ill and grumpy and this is NOT a happy home.

The baby's colickiness is thankfully getting better; have been doing breast compression which seems to be making a difference there, but he is still nocturnal . how the hell do we get him into a routine of sleeping at night and being awake in the day? We have tried keeping him awake during the day but once he is asleep you could swing him around by one leg and he wouldn't wake, or else if we manage to keep him reasonably awake, he is still awake all night. We try to keep nights as low key as possible, we have tried him in his pram, a crib, his bouncy chair (which reclines flat) have got a side car cot, tried a sling (he just screams), dark room, light room, noise, no noise, cuddling him, ignoring him, co-sleeping, dummies, cranial osteopathy

the only thing that seems to have any effect is either me or DH sitting up, wide awake with him either laying flat over our knees or else semi upright sucking on one of our fingers. If he is asleep, as soon as we take the finger away he pings wide awake again.

We are at breaking point and DH and I have only managed one night of us both in the bed together since DS2 was born. I have depression and although was feeling fine initially, am starting to feel detached from everything and disinterested in everything again. DH and I are also getting to the point where we are having a contest to see who can hold out longest when either DS2 or DD start crying. Not a happy home at all and I know I'm starting to regret our decision to have another (unplanned) DC

not sure what anyone can suggest, but just getting this down has helped. thanks for getting to the end of what has turned out to be a pretty mammoth post.

Could you get someone to take your other dcs for a couple of hours during the day over the Christmas holidays to give you a bit of rest while the baby is asleep? Not much , I know, but may help in the interim with what is hopefully a short term problem.

Sorted that one already . DH has taken DS1 fishing and dropped DD off at his parents so it's just me and the (sleeping) baby. He actually slept from 4 until 8 last night and DH did a bottle of EBM at 1am so I feel OK today....which is why I was able to get it all down on here!!

Poor DH is like the walking dead though.

All I can suggest is that you keep waking him up every few hours (every 3 hours?) during the day and even if he only feeds a little it will hopefully make him less hungry at night.

You say you have tried all these different places for sleeping,but have you thought about his position?

If he is colicky,etc,he needs to be asupright as possible,so when he is in a cot/moses basket,prop up the feet on books etc.I have even put a blanket under the mattress so that my DD2 was almost sitting up.

The other thing is,IME it has taken up to 12 weeks to see any changes regarding them settling into a "routine" or pattern,and seeming to "recognise" night time to day time.

I also think continuity is a key here,with DS I tried everything,but not for very long.I would try sitting him more upright,maybe swaddling him,if he'll tolerate it,and use one thing to sleep in eg.Moses Basket.

Make things "peaceful" with no bright lights for daytime,and dark and quiet for night time,and percevere for a week or so with everything the same, so he starts to recognise the pattern/sleep cues .

Not his feet the base of the Moses basket!

It sounds like DS2 is getting a lot of sleep during the day so not tired at night.

Try waking him to feed every 3 hours and making the after feed time busy/stimulating for an hour then letting him sleep.

I would do this thru to 9/10pm then it is bedtime, so feed and sleep.

If your DH could have the baby from 8/9pm and do the bedtime settle and the first waking you would get several uninterrupted hours sleep and feel better and then you could take over baby duties from early mid morning hours and your DH can sleep soundly.

thanks....he has a roughly 3 hour daily feeding pattern, but is generally half asleep when feeding and goes straight to sleep again afterwards, and won't be woken up.

His feeding pattern at night isn't that bad though, he feeds about 10-11ish then again at 3ish and again at 7ish. It's just the awakeness that is the issue.

have recently started breast compression for the colic so am hoping that this might help with the night stuff.

After he's fed and gone back to sleep try and wake him up after 45 minutes when he should be coming into light sleep again?

lots of cross posts!

feet are already raised. He does sleep in his chair, which is very sturdy and supportive (not one of the flimsy bouncy chairs) but I was worried about his back if in that too much, althougb it isn't curved like a car seat.

the continuity thing is a good suggestion as we have been a bit chop and changey to get something to work, and if it stops we try something else in desperation.

Hi MatNan . He gets very grumpy if we try and stimulate him, and if I am truthful, because I have DD to entertain and things to do in the house and he is DC3, he doesn't get nearly the amount of attention that the other two got when they were this age . I assume that this is typical of subsequent babies, especially with a small age gap. DS1 was at school wsen DD was born so it was like she was a first baby again, at least during school hours and I had more time to dedicate to her.

I think perhaps I have just been spoiled by my older two as they were both easy babies and DS1 was sleeping 6 hours at 2.5 weeks and DD by 6 weeks. I suppose it was too much to hope that we would strike it lucky third time in a row!

didn't know that about 45mins pattern....thanks

Could you try chatting/singing to him to keep him more alert?

Try putting him somewhere quiet when he sleeps in the day to mimic nighttime.

Is he very active/awake before feeding?

Is he left alone to play/look around in the daytime rathr than being picked up/played with.

he goes from asleep to "feed me now" in about 10 secs and is generally asleep before he goes back in his chair or asleep on my lap if I'm having a MN session rest from chores.

On the rare occasions when he is awake in the day, he will happily lie on his playmat and look at things, but then DD sits on him, he cries gets a cuddle and goes to sleep.

You'd think by DC3 I would have half a clue as to what I'm doing, but DH and I were just remarking last night that we can't read him at all. Most of the time I just sit looking at him, scratching my head thinking "what do you want/need now?"

i found DC3 the hardest to read too,and just as I was despairing,it all fell slowly into place around 12 weeks,bit by bit.All DC's are different IME and some take longer than others for a pattern to emerge or for "needs" to be more obvious.

sawyer, we keep telling ourselves that things should be better by 12 weeks, and "only another x weeks" has become our mantra.....but eight weeks in and things seem to be getting worse is making us very despondent.

Although in light of a bit of sleep and perspective, it probably only seems worse because DH back at work means I am coping on my own in the day and neither of us have the luxury of an afternoon nap any more....and we are all ill.

Are third babies difficult all round then...pregnancy, birth and early days?

bumping for suggestions on reversing the sleep patterns of a nocturnal baby.

somone today suggested it might be because he was born in the middle of the night and it's got me wondering. DS1 and DD were both lunchtime babies and slept easily at night. DS2 was born at 2.14am and sleeps all day.

might do a quick poll on it in chat as it has me intrigued.

Daisy, you know that you and I are in the same boat, experiencing the same thing.
Things got a bit better just before christmas, and we managed a 4 hr sleep, at night.
But since then, things had resorted back tot he norm. Awake till midnight. Up most of the night.
I too have no decent advice for yuo.
But major sympathy and hugs.
BUT, I do have to tell you that , if you missed it on our PN thread, I posted to say that I had been to GP. Who was concerned about me. And the fact I was at breaking point.
She prescribed PHENERGAN. It is supposed to be for over 2 yr olds. And it is supposed to be for allergies. But it causes drowsiness. And that is why she gave it to me. She said instead of 5ml, to only start with 1 or 2 ml. And see how we went.
I didn't use it for nearly a week. But on boxing day nigh, dh and I were desperate. And he did then sleep for 4 hrs.
Just a thought. I am so sorry. \i have nothing else to suggest.
BIG HUGS

Daisy sorry things are stillnot getting better.

I agree that you should maybe go for a stragergy and stick with it, to give him a chance to get the hang of it. If he is awake at night but it's just dark in the room with othing going on, maybe he'll get the meaasge??

Imi sleeps loads in the day, and well at night- so it may nit be the too much skeep in the day that is the problen in itself.

Sorry not desperately useful, but much sympathy from one sickly sleep deprived household to another-

thanks you guys

it does help knowing that I'm not the only one going through it. Not that I wish it in anyone else, but you know what I mean......the empathy factor.

big hugs coming right back at you Obs

Of course I should have spent today entertaining him and keeping him awake, but chose to MN the morning away and then sleep most of the afternoon.

I really feel for you- this might be an annoying thing to say- but it is a phase- it will pass. I'm speaking from experience.

Have a look at this though uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RoNbYXQnPC4 it's a lesson on a really good swaddling technique. I used it on my ds- it worked a treat. Like you, I felt like I had tried everything and the situation was making me feel extremely fragile. When I started swaddling him like this, he went from horrendous colicy evenings and very regular night waking, to sleeping for 5 hour stretches from 9pm. I have since shown several friends who have found themselves in the same boat, and they both swear by it too.
I learnt it from a book: 'Baby Bliss' by Harvey Karp- it's written in a incredibly annoying style, but worth a look as I reckon the actual info is just what you need when you're at the end of your tether.

Things will definitely get better soon, promise!

thanks bertha, will look at the video

Obviously DS2 didn't much care for being discussed on MN all day yesterday.

DH out him down in his cot at 10ish. He fed when I went to bed at just after 1, went straight back to sleep and that was him until just after six!

Of course I am now wondering what's whether he is OK

I'd say in part it's around 7 weeks+ that they do start to settle a bit more etc before that they don't really do awake, they are either awake and unhappy, feeding or asleep.

Hope this is the start of big improvements.

Is he cluster feeding in the evenings/at night? A lot of babies cluster feed in the evenings and then sleep a longer chunk. If he's cluster feeding all night and then sleeping all day, it might help if you initiate the cluster feeding earlier (or later?) to shift him onto a more bearable schedule.

no, no cluster feeding of any sort....just regualr as clockwork three hourly feeds.

We have had a great night, followed by a bad night and then an OK night (although he still didn't settle until after 1am, but it's better than five!). I hope this is turning point (albeit a low key one) and that we get more good nights than bad nights from here on in.

Thanks for all the advice.