The big controlled crying debate - 5 months will not settle, any thoughts??

[snowjoke]

My 5 month old DD is being an absolute delight during the day at the moment full of fun and smiles, life as a mummy feels very fulfilling and special, until witching hour - bedtime. We have been having so many problems over the last few months with sleeping, lot os night waking etc, finally things seemed to be getting better. However over the last few weeks bedtime has been getting more and more difficult. We do bath, quiet time, feed bed, then she never went down first time but would go off with some shushing, some nights a few pick up and put downs, but this was working and we thought we had the fomula. As alway with our little darlings they like to throw you a curve ball. This has been deteriorating over last few weeks, now bedtime is taking about 2 hours of wakings lots of crying, not even settling when picked up, then sometimes she is just wide awake and waning to play, sweet but frustrating. Now the big question is swhere d I go from here, she is getting more and more knowing and do not want to foster bad habits at this stage, my heart breaks at the thought of controlled crying, but I can't think of anything else to try. I know fellow mumsnet readers are not usually pro CC, so please don't beat me up about it, I am looking for constructive advice and stories from experience. Woud be so happy to have any help from fellow mums. Also she is still night waking a few times a night, she is breastfed.

No specifics, sorry, hope someone will be along with more. I'm pro-CC overall but tbh I think 5 months is too young for it.

I do wonder if daytime sleeping (if any) needs adjusting? Often helps. If only because you feel like you're doing something,and they just grow out of whatever it is they are going through, at the same time. Best wishes.

5/6/7 mth is a typical sleep regression age. Early gross motor developers get to the regression earlier; is your lo about to start sitting unaided? Rolling over? or (God help you) thinking about crawling or pulling up? It is also a very classic age for a growth spurt.

The thing to be careful of with the drawn out bedtimes is that all the quiet time and the shhing sort of revives them and lets them get into the over-tired cycle of more difficult to fall asleep. What I did in those days was if he wasn't well on his way to asleep, I'd get him up and have a play for 5-10 min and then try again.

I'm anti
but even the pro-est would say 5 months is too young

personally I would say come back andmoan when your 22 months old has never slept through the niht and still wakes at least 3 times a night
but then I'm just tired and bitter

also dont worry about fosterin bad habits at this young
IMHO I dont think you need to worry about it

my two older girls both slept terribly until they were nearly 3

I just rode it out and did whatever they wanted till they were a little older and I could tell what was wrong becuase they could talk fluently

then you can discipline but they never lose confidence in you comin to them when they need you

and yes, cuddles are a NEED

I'm another member of the 22 mth old who wakes at least 3 times a night. We've had some shockers this week with more teething and then a fever. I wonder if I have the only child who is potty trained but can't sleep longer than 3 hour stretches. Multiple night waking in a 5 month old is normal and healthy; it is nature's way of preventing SIDS.

Hi, my 5mth had a terrble phase for a week a couple of weeks ago but is fine now. (stll waking but more settled - though awake now ). Repeat: IT S ALL A PHASE

Really, really don't worry about bad habits. You can teach them new skills whenever and when they are ready. You wouldn't get him out of nappies now because it creates a bad habit for the future, you just teach/let them potty train when older.

Can you get any sleep co-sleeping? At the moment we put our eldest (2.6) to bed at about 7pm (was 11pm on Xmas Day though ) and then ds stays with me - dozing/feeding/playing. Then I take him up with me at about 10pm and we sleep. But apprecate it doesn'ty work for everyone.

I second everything Umlellala says!

I will go against the tide here and say that there is nothing wrong with sleep training at five months.

When DD was 4 months, her paediatrician recommended we "sort out the sleep situation" now, otherwise she would wake up for milk every night until she was about 2 years old. (We are in France, where a baby is followed by her paediatrician in monthly visits).

DH and I were so scared by the prospect of our sleep deprivation extending over two years that we cut out night feeds there and then. DD was sleeping through by third night. It was the single best advice I had on any subject. Ever.

Your OP reads like you don't intend to cut out night feeds, but only to get her to sleep easier at bed time. I think you can do this in just a few days, but should probably ask for advice on how to do it. We didn't do "real" CC, because we never left DD to cry on her own - one of us was always there with her, patting, or rocking, etc until she fell asleep (without a feed). I'm not sure how that would work when the aim is to teach baby to find sleep on her own. Possibly just patting her without picking her up?

I would look at your naps in the daytime, at this age a nap in the morning (45 min ish) at lunch (2 hours) and poss a quick afternoon nap are required, i always found night time settling easier if baby wasnt overtired from too little napping time or had been napping too late in the day and wasnt tired

i think there is no harm in leaving a baby to grumble or whinge for a few minutes, something i was too scared to do originally but not to actually cry. Mine both moan to sleep, and dd now talks herself to sleep but when actually crying they do need a cuddle/ patting/stroking whichever soothes

Agree that this is a normal age for issues as they start to move and grow

Your 'heart breaks at the thought of cc'?
Stay well away from CC.! You answered your own question

In order to do CC you do need to understand that different cries
mean different things. If you don't understand (or agree with) that
then, yes, wait until she is old enough to talk and then try and reason with her.

5 months is perfectly fine for CC BUT if the parents don't understand
the baby's cries then her age is not particularly relevant.

interesting look at parenting techniques etc.

"at five weeks, the scheduler babies fussed/cried for 121 minutes of the 24 hours, compared with 82 minutes for the hugger babies"

And that is surprising... how, exactly?

Doesn't the same article say parents of "scheduler babies" were "planning to delay responses to crying, to teach self-soothing". Meaning, these babies would of course cry for a bit longer every day.

Oh and and at 40 minutes longer crying per day being considered statistically significant. DD cried for hours and hours and hours, day and night, throughout the first three months. And not because we weren't there holding her.

I started CC with my DS around 5/6mths,
it worked for us

never had a milk feed during the night after this and therefore started to sleep through, or settle himself if he did wake.
now only wakes if ill or teething.

My thoughts are that if you do decide to CC you need to find a window of opportunity, i.e. not teething, not ill etc so that they are only waking out of habit for a feed, and this is often difficult.

Also did CC during the day to get him into a good pattern for naps, this also worked out really well as I only have suggest a sleepy time and he settles himself down for a nap.(if he shows all the signs of being tired)

if you feel comfortable doing cc then go ahead, personally I'm pro cc here too. otherwise just ride it out, she'll get better soon.

Possibly too young for CC?

Who chooses bedtime? You or her? Are you just trying too early in the evening? When does she finally fall asleep after all the fussing?

I would choose that time as her bedtime (even if it'll mess up your routine/evening/night...)and settle her at that time for a week or so. Then move it forward by 15-30 mins a week until you reach the bedtime when she starts fussing again. You will have (hopefully!) then found her natural body rhythm bedtime and IMO if you make bedtime 15 mins after that time she should fall asleep more easily(fingers crossed).

Have you read the No cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantly - a real alternative to CC if you want to do something proactive, but not CC, and have the time/patience.

Oh, and my DS gave up his 3rd nap, the late afternoon one, around this age. Is your LO still napping 3 times a day? Is it possible she no longer needs the 3rd one, but has not let it go yet?

I concur with most - five months is too early, sleep regression at this stage is very normal, and breastfeeding babies feeding through the night before they are fully weaned is not just normal but a necessity.
BUT - I do understand your pain. My DS has woken to feed every two hours since birth (often every 45 minutes), even now he is fully weaned. We have hit the place where enough is enough and we started cc last night. We are doing this because we are desperate - I work full-time, and have a three year old, and sleep deprivation has caused PND and a very rocky patch in my marriage. That is the only reason I am doing it, because I simply can't cope with it any more. He is over-tired and grumpy all day and so am I!!
My advice would be - ride it out if you can, many bf babies start to sleep much better around eight months. I don't believe that you can cause long-lasting bad habits. I fed my daughter to sleep for 15 months but she slept through the night at ten months - she just wasn't ready before. Try other techniques (especially Pantley) to see if it works, and if it doesn't, and you are really struggling then harden your heart for a few days and do it if you really, really have to.

A really good site on sleep regressions is askmoxie.org