12 wk old has gone to bed before us for the first time ever tonight and I am confused - advice please

[HarktheheraldAnglepoise]

DD is 12 wks tomorrow. She is breastfed on demand and there is no pattern to her feeds and naps during the day that I can see (except that she tends to fall asleep in the car if we go out anywhere, and I try to get her to have a sleep if I catch her yawning). She is a fairly good napper I think and probably sleeps for a few hours during the course of the day - it seems to vary a lot.

During the evening, she is either asleep in her chair in the living room with us or (more often at the moment) sleeping on me - not feeding constantly but will feed to sleep then wake up if I try to put her down, so I end up pinned to the sofa. She can be fussy in the evening as well. Our bedtime routine at the moment is that I start trying to put her to bed at around 11 - take her upstairs, put her in her grobag, we look at a board book together and have a chat about the day, then feed her to sleep and put her down in her cot. Somehow over the past few weeks, this routine has spread out over 2-3 hours, so she's going down some time around 1-2 am She then sleeps fairly well through the night, waking once or twice for a feed and then we get up around 10-11 am.

DH and I are very much night people and he is not working at the moment so doesn't have to be up early, so in many ways this routine suits us fine. However, I feel it's taking far too long to put her down for the night - going up at 11 pm is my attempt at an early night, so it's frustrating not to get into bed until nearly 2 am! I also feel generally that we should (all) be going to bed earlier and getting up earlier, like good respectable citizens especially at the moment when we're only out of bed for a few hours before it gets dark.

I read something by Elizabeth Pantley on kellymom the other day that said if your baby is hard to settle then you may be putting them to bed too late (I also feel like a bad mum putting her to bed at 11 pm ). Tonight I have tried putting her down at 8 pm (which took until 9 pm as she fed and dozed on me for ages) then she's woken up every hour or so and one of us has had to go up to calm her and DH is asking what the point of this is. And I've ended up in the bedroom with her (though she's been sleeping peacefully since I started typing this mammoth post) because it feels weird being separated from her and to save running up and down the stairs and because I'm worried about her waking up on her own, so I'm kind of wondering what the point is too.

So is there a point to settling her upstairs early on her own? I've just kind of assumed that at some point we are going to have to do this and three months seems like a good place to start. I am thoroughly confused about what I should be doing. Thank you and apologies if you've read this far.

I would shorten the bedtime part of the routine; maybe your DH can do the board book and grobag downstairs and going upstairs can be the cue that it's sleep time. You can keep the lights off upstairs then and avoid her getting re-stimulated by the book when she's already sleepy.

I would not feel pressured to change a bedtime that's working for you. Sleeping in until 10/11am sounds heavenly and I wouldn't trade it to satisfy someone else or a lofty ideal. If you do want to shift her bedtime, you can try to get her to start cluster feeding earlier in the evening. It's common for breastfed babies to cluster feed for a few hours and then drop off and sleep for a long stretch.

all children are different and respond to different routines. Do not change yours just because a so called expert says XX is the perfect routine.
However, after my first baby, there were definitely certain aspects to sleep routines that I changed for DD2 after learning the "hard" way.
I do think there is a huge benefit to helping them to learn to settle down on their own. It might not feel kind or important now, but when your baby is a little older and more aware of their surrounding, people, sounds etc, you could find it very hard leaving the room. I spent evening after evening with crazy routines trying to creep out of DD1?s room, only for her to open one eye, spot I had gone and yell the place down. DD2 might stir a little when settling but was happy and relaxed on her own, able to fall asleep without constant reassurance. Amazing how this can affect them when they are a lot older. If DD1 (now 7) wakes up, she is anxious to find us in the house and check where we are, DD2 will just go grab a book and fall back to sleep happily.
The night time sleep is also worth making different to day time naps - darkened quiet room rather than learning to fall asleep to noise, tv on, downstairs in the main room. Getting that day, night routine and longer sleeps at night, settling down not playing time, is really important. Might not be vital now, but good routines and habits will pay off when she is 6 months old and older.

I know it feel weird being separated from her - I felt like that too. However, be careful about setting up bad habits early. My DD1 used to fall asleep with a fist full of my hair, me sitting on the floor by her cot. That way she knew I was there and not going anywhere. Every night for several months I spent an hour or more sitting at an awkward angle on the floor being ruled over by my baby! Crazy. All because I was anxious to keep her happy and feeling secure, rather than helping her adjust to a healthier routine of falling asleep on her own.

2-3 hours is a really really long time to draw out a bedtime routine. You must be exhausted. I would consider trying to reduce this to half an hour if you can - for your sanity as welll as anything.

If you do want her to go to bed earlier, I would do it by a small amount (maybe 15 minutes earlier) every night until you get to the desired time. But Ches is right about not changeing things for the wrong reasons. My dd used to take 2 hours and there would be lots of screaming and I dreaded it every night. She did get better when I made bedtime a bit earlier because she was not so tired. But also, i notice this still happens when she has a nap too late in the day. Now she's 7 months it only takes half an hour from start to finish.

Thanks for the replies After posting I read some of the other threads on here and felt so guilty for (sounding as though I was) complaining that I thought I'd be run out of Dodge!

Well, last night was pretty hellish (compared to the cushy time I'm used to!). She slept pretty happily from 9 pm to about midnight when I had to change her nappy (probably shouldn't have tried to do this when she's suddenly started needing changing every few hours again). Then I fed her and she went straight to sleep again. And then woke up. After lots of feeding and jiggling from me, DH got her to sleep around 2 am. Then she woke at 3, and after more jiggling, pacing and freezing to death next to the cot with a finger in her mouth, fed her for an hour and she went back to sleep at 4.30 am. Then she woke sometime before 7 I think and fed for another hour (bobbing on and off). Then woke again at 9.45 when we all got up for the day. Meh.

Just wanted to clarify that putting her in her grobag and reading a couple of books to her takes around ten minutes - it's the feeding and jiggling afterwards that can take two hours. Actually I don't know how it takes this long - I just know that I start trying to go to bed at 11 and actually get to sleep at around 1.

I am very much of the if it ain't broke way of thinking and going to bed late was working for us so perhaps I should stick to that for now - just having a complete crisis of confidence! I always feel that you're being judged by the world if you're late to bed and late to get up - I felt vaguely guilty about it even when I was working evenings/nights!

Tbh I am a bit confused about how you fit in cluster feeding AND an early bed time. Think I will try to put her down relatively early again tonight, just because she's going to have to go to bed early at some point so should learn, but will give us a bit of an evening with her too. Plus she was the happiest baby in the world when I was changing her nappy and trying to get her to bed at midnight

firstly - I am very impressed with the book at bedtime for a 12 week old

secondly, I remember when DS1 went to sleep at around 7pm for the first time. DH and I were stood there looking at him in his little bouncy chair and wondering what to do. Should we wake him up to feed him? Go t bed? Put him to bed?

Thhinking back on it now, I can't believe we were so anxious about him going to sleep!
Just try and go woth the flow and not to wory about it too much. You may have ababy thatwants to go to sleep early or she may wake up at midnight and want to play for a couple of hours.....

Books (those black and white ones) were the very first thing I bought - DH and I are both big readers so I just want to get her into the habit of a book before bed. We just look at the pictures though, I'm not that bad a pushy mother

if later works with you, stick with it. If it suits you and she is happy then no need to change just for convention.
I was suggesting settling her on her own just to make it easier later on, and to get out of a long drawn out bedtime routine that can be harder to break the longer it is established. These were just to make your life easier in the long term. However, I totally agree that if it ain?t broke, don?t meddle! If your main concern is the late night routine because others might think badly of you - sod them. If your child was going to school at 8.30am the next day then they might have a point. Until it starts having a negative impact on your lives, stick with what works best for you.

It def sounds like her cluster feeding is starting when you start trying to put her to bed. I would try to initiate it earlier. Also she's probably in the midst of a growth spurt hence the hellacious night last night.

My ds went to bed at same time as us for a good number of months until he managed to sleep for 11 or 12 hours. I didn't want to be up at 5 or 6 and it suited us. You should do what is right for you.

Thanks - I think I just needed reassurance!

Last night she slept in her chair downstairs from probably 7ish (I think this is unusual) until I took her to bed at half ten (very unusual!). Put on grobag, didn't bother with books as she was drowsy, fed and in bed asleep by 11. Hoorah! DH and I still didn't go to sleep until 1, but that was partly because I was making lists of things we need to do for Christmas. Then she was up at 3 and (felt like) in bed with us for most of the night, latched on to one boob or the other, though I slept through a lot of it. So yes, am assuming it's growth spurt time.

DH and DD up around 9ish, and I had a lie-in until half past, but to have all of us up and ready to face the day at a reasonable hour is something of an achievement

Hark glad you have got a routine going that works for you, the only thing I would say is that as an adult if you suddenly need to start getting up at say 7/8am your brain will understand why and you can adjust relatively easily however if you baby is well set in his routine of late bedtime and late getting up time it might not be so easy to change it for him. The other thing is that humans do have natural circadian rhythms and all the babies in our NCT class (ok hardly scientific research) have started sleeping from 7pm whether on a prescribed routine or allowed to do what they want.