Terrible sleeper - at the end of my tether - where can I get help?

[Piccalilli2]

Dd2 is 7 months. She has never slept through the night, she generally wakes a minimum of every 2 hours, often more. Through a combination of sleep training techniques we had managed to get her settling in her cot for a few hours at bedtime before co-sleeping with me. However, over the last week she has stopped even doing that - she will only feed to sleep lying down in our bed. I am now officially desperate - not only have I had less than 4 hours sleep a night for the last 4 months, in stretches of less than 2 hours, but now I don't even get to spend any of the evening with dh, in addition to not sleeping together any more. And I'm going back to work in 5 weeks, to a fairly responsible/stressful job. I really, really can't take this much longer and I feel like we've tried everything and probably need some professional help. But I haven't the first idea how to go about finding help. Has anyone used a sleep clinic or trainer they can recommend? We're in Yorkshire.

Piccalilli, my dd was exactly the same as yours, its a nightmare isn't it? We eventually gave in and paid to see a sleep specialist 3 weeks ago, just before dd's 1st birthday. I was very against doing cc as my dd used to be sick if left too, but she suggested a more gentle approach. The first night was not easy, but better than I expected - and she's pretty much slept through since! We've had a few early morning wakings, but she's had back to back colds and 3 teeth through in that time, so we reckon we're doing ok. We saw Andrea Grace (google her) and I couldn't recommend her highly enough. She does phone consultations too. Yes, annoying to have to pay for advice I think the health visitor should have been able to give, but it doesn't always work that way and we think getting our sleep back was worth every penny.

Sorry! It was rude of me to offer advice and then bugger off.

We did this:

BF to sleep for all naps in the day.

First Night:
7.30: BF to sleep
10.30 or just before first normal wake time: lift and feed in the dark no noise. This is really to ensure that the next waking is as late as possible and the whole night isn't taken up with crying but also supplies extra calories seeing as we were doing BLW rather than purees.
First waking: DP goes in to settle in any way he can. Mine stayed in all night with DD and I found them both asleep on the floor in the morning. This meant that DD had gone through the night without BF but with no confusion of me being there.

The next day give plenty of feeds.

Next nights:
7.30 BF to sleep
10:30 lift and feed
Next wakings: Stay a moment and comfort without talking or lifting, leave for one minute and repeat all night. The idea is that baby doesn't feel abandoned but when you are there it is very very boring. Offer no stimulation, just a hand on the back or head or (bizarrely this worked for us) round the ankle.

So it is a moments quiet comfort and a minute out of the room repeated what feels like millions of times. I wore earplugs so I didn't get too upset by the screaming. It took about 40 minutes for her to go back to sleep the first time, then she kept waking up every 20 minutes.

Next nights:
On waking, don't go in straight away, leave a few minutes to let them try and go back to sleep. Otherwise, carry on as before.

After 3 nights of only occasional wakings DD settled into a routine of not waking until 5.30am which we had to live with for a while as she was wide awake. She thankfully grew out of that when she started eating solids properly and I stopped BF(about 16 mo). I think I stopped lifting and feeding after about a fortnight.

DD is now 2 and I still lie with her in her bed while she goes to sleep. This is my choice and I love it. I never asked for advice on how she could go off to bed by herself. I honestly believed that DD was the worst sleeper in the world and that nothing would work. It was hard and I couldn't have done it without DP who is ace.

If I have missed anything or you want to know anything else then do ask, I will definately check sooner this time!

Good luck. I hope some of this is a help.

Millpond sleep specialists were amazing, ds went from waking every 20-40 mins all night at 4 months old to sleeping 7-7 with no waking within 4 weeks. it was very hard work the first 2 weeks and got worse before it got better, but was then brilliant. no cc required either, it was a gentle, gradual approach and the regular phone consultations were really helpful, supportive and non judgmental. ds is now 27 months and is still a brilliant sleeper. by the time we got in touch with millpond, we had only a few options - the priory (as i was loosing my mind on so little sleep - it really is torture), divorce or millpond!

piccalilli I am in an almost identical situation to you - I know it doesn't help but just wanted to let you know.
The night before last, she decided at 1am that she didn't want to go back to sleep, and she stayed up until 6am. DS gets up at 7 so it's pretty hellish.
Thank goodness last night she was back in her usual routine of waking every 40 mins and only one long awakening of an hour at 11pm.
I'd be very interested in seeing what works for you as this just can't continue.

Oh and I really want to see the x factor final on sat but am banished upstairs at 8pm every night

Picalilli I wrote a post very similar to yours this time last year - you've had loads of advice so far but I just wanted to add that we didn't do/stick at any sort of training (didn't have the energy TBH!) and things did improve by themselves. I went back to a fairly pressurised FT job with long hours when DS was around 6 months old and I was beside myself about how I would cope. Looking back I am sure he was starting to teethe round about then.

But once bedtimes were started off in the cot he gradually improved, very very gradually, and spent more of each evening in his cot. By the time he was around 9 months he was sleeping most of each evening in his cot and I would take him in with me if he woke when/after I went to bed. He too is an enthusiastic exclusive BFer but around the same time started to actually eat some solids rather than play with them which meant he relied less on the milk at nights.

He's now 16 months and although he's a rubbish sleeper (we've managed 7.30pm-4.30am once, about 3 months ago!) it's very rare that I don't have an evening to myself or that I have to spend more than ten minutes settling him, and although he still cosleeps unless he's teething he's very settled with us.

So whatever you do, be assured that it will slowly get better and you will survive this, awful as it seems just now. I wish you all the best (and some peace and quiet!)

Thanks iatethewholeselectionbox. It does help to hear about it getting better by itself - I'm not looking for miracles here, just a couple of hours to myself in the evening (otherwise I feel like I'm on duty 24/7 and it's getting to be too much) and a stretch of 3 hours sleep - from experience, that's what I need to function. How did you get to the point where bedtimes started in the cot? I'm back to feeding to sleep on our bed. We had managed to get her settling in her cot for a few hours but only with controlled crying and it wasn't really improving - she was still crying for 10-20 mins every night. Then about 2 weeks ago that stopped working and she now just screams and screams if she goes within 3 feet of her cot at bedtime.

I am really grateful for all the recommendations, it's a big step to start looking for professional help - I feel like I'm admitting failure and then there's the money. From what everyone has said though it looks like the best option might be to muddle through for another couple of months, see how starting nursery affects things, and save up in the meantime for either Andrea Grace or Millpond.

Out of interest 12stepmum, how much did the Millpond consultation cost?

Pic - when you feed her to sleep at 7pm on your bed do you leave her on your bed or move her into her cot? If you leave her on your bed do you stay with her then for the rest of the night or come back downstairs?

Picalilli, you asked how the bedtimes in the cot started.

We didn't put him down awake until nearer a year. Better twenty minutes patting or rocking or feeding than an hour crying, IMO. It started with me feeding him to sleep in my arms while gently patting his bum. Once he was soundly asleep (this took ages) I would lift him into the cot, all the time patting. This meant if he stirred as he was moved the patting seemed to reassure him. Then we stood and patted his bum until we could slow the speed down and then move away really slowly. Some nights it would take an hour but over a few weeks it got easier and better.

We also rocked him to sleep sometimes so he wasn't too dependent on me, or on one method. Then he'd suddenly have some sort of jump and get easier to put down. I also had times when I suddenly had confidence in him and was brave enough to push a bit more in terms of how sleepy he was and over a few months he got more amenable to being unlatched (thanks to NCSS) and put down while sleepy, with patting. Then he suddenly started being OK with being put down by himself.

Now at 16 months we've put toothbrushing and a storybook inbetween the feed and lights-out time so he gets a story in his cot then lies down. But it takes until they understand and link tiredness with sleep.

HTH

Hi Piccalilli: I agree with the posters who say this is well within the boundaries of normal for a baby of this age

Why are you getting less than 4 hours sleep a night?

I found that just accepting that I was going to be DEAD for the first year and going to bed often when the baby did (at 8-9ish) was the best way to survive

Hiya, Millpond had two options, a 3 weeks service and a 6 weeks service, we went for the 6 week one because they recommended for babies under 6 months, and also because at the time i couldn't possibly see how it would all be sorted out in only 3 weeks! i think the 6 week package was about £250. But they also put out a good book you could try first? Hope everyone gets more sleep tonight

Not sure if anyone is still there, but i wanted to add my most heart-felt sympathy to Piccalilli, Sasamax and anyone else suffering this strange and cruel torture.

My DS is 13 months and as bad as any i have heard of. And just keeps getting worse. Thanks to everyone who offered advice to Picalilli. -I'm going to try to take some of it if i can just find the energy...z z z

breakfastinved - what is your situation?

Hello Nappyaddict, v nice of you to ask. I'm afraid i have posted a couple of whinging messages describing my situation in the last couple of days. Basically DS sleeps very lightly, wakes all the time, cries furiously for hours, thrashes about angrily, is infuriated by all my attempts to soothe him (shushing, cuddling, stroking, hand-holding, any amount of BFing while co-sleeping, cuddling up in my bed, cuddling up in his cot, etc etc). A little boy who seems to be either very angry or very miserable or in pain.

If you think he is in pain have you tried giving him nurofen/calpol when he wakes or before bed?

What happens if you don't attempt to soothe him as it looks like that makes him worse.

Hi Breakfastinbed - welcome to the sleeplessness club
It's rubbish!

Is he windy at all?

Piccalilli, hello, just wanted to say that I could have written your op when my dd was that age

I didn't really do any training, co-slept and bf until about 2 then co-slept until (ok don't freak out) 5.5

I have to say though that my dp was very supportive and although it was difficult for us to start with, we both realised that it was for a relatively short period of time.

So nothing really useful to add , but I know what you're going through.

She sleeps well now

AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhh
I am SSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOo tired.
She just tosses and turns and complains all night long. I move her from this side to that, dummy in, dummy out, feed this side, feed that side, ssshhhh for ever, stroke her back, stroke her face, put her in the cot, take her out of the cot, and still she wakens constantly and often takes 3 or 4 hours to go back to sleep.
Please can someone help - I am losing the plot.
This morning I cannot even smile at her as she is torturing me.
Help!

is this something that happens to all 7 month olds? mine was up every half hour to 45 minutes all night long. do they ever learn to settle themselves.. she'll go to sleep on her own for her morning nap, and at bedtime, but not through the night.

Well you're doing something right at least kwt. I can't even get her to settle during the day. Hell I can't even get her to sit quietly in the car or pram but that's another issue...
She will setlle herself to sleep at bedtime if I shush her and lie beside her so that's something I suppose.
Why so restless all night long though - why why why?????