It was all going perfectly, now its gone tits up.....

[alandimi]

11 week DD. Had a routine which was working brilliantly. Was settling relatively easily at 7pm having been fed at 6.15pm, fed again at 10.30pm sleeping through til 5am, small feed (10 mins) back down until 7am - bloody marvellous and I thought we were on track for sleeping through to 7am in a couple of weeks time.

Now she is refusing to settle at 7pm. Sometimes she has loads to eat others next to nothing at her 6.15pm feed, she is fast asleep by 6.30pm (there is no waking her), then wakes up at 6.45pm refusing any more food, wide awake and screams the house down if I put her to bed (she's been in her own cot since 3 weeks). Have tried controlled crying, tried dummys (flat silicone and rubber cherry) both fall out and she kicks off again. If she does fall asleep she is so tired when I wake her at 10.30pm she doesn't feed properly and so is waking up at 3/4am for a really big feed and then she is wide awake and doesn't settle, so when I get her up at 7am she doesn't feed properly and falls asleep and consequently has a knock on effect for the rest of the day. She settles fine for all her naps during the day.

Last couple of nights I've given in and she has been sleeping on me on the sofa (if i try and put her down she lasts 2 mins before waking and screaming) but that means I don't get anything to eat (I'm on my own so can't give her to someone else) and I worry my milk is getting low. I'm really tired and am struggling. I can't understand why she is suddenly refusing to be put down at 7pm, I've had no problems with putting her down at at this time since I started the routine 8 weeks ago.

All the books say increase the day time feeds but I don't see how I can do this. If she doesn't want any food I cant exactly force her and the one time I tried giving her a bottle of breast milk at the 10.30pm feed, in the hope she would take more and last longer, she woke at 2.30am and again at 5am so we've gone back to the boob.

I don't think it is a growth spurt as she is not feeding any more than usual during the day, if anything she is taking less, and she is sleeping normally during the day.

Any suggestions?

I wouldn't wake her at 10.30pm
By not doing that she will have less in the night and hopefully have more in the day

teething? suddenly not wanting to be awayfrom you, feeling that 3,4,5...11 weeks is too little for a routine...

relax, feel her needs, stop pressuring yourself

disclaimer:IMVHO

Can you start the 6:15 feed a bit earlier? you may manage to get more in her that way. The other thing that worked for me during growth spurts was feeding just before naps as well as when DS got up, so he was having a little top up, boosting my supply and getting more into him.

My first assumption is either overtiredness or too much day time sleep - how much does she nap during the day? I had a massive problem with overtiredness recently (DS is 11 weeks) and it was because i had over estimated how much he could cut his day time naps by - he now has 4-5 hours during the day. if he gets 5 he tends to be awake a little bit later during the evening, but is asleep by 8:30 or so.

In the short term, can you make yourself a batch of sandwiches and a glass of water and have them ready next to you so you know if disaster strikes you have something to eat

BTW, i know you say she's not having a growth spurt, but temporarily increasing day time feed number might mean she needs less at night.

with regard to naps - she has 45 mins in the morning (happily goes down at 9 and wakes on her own), 2 - 2 1/2 hours over lunch (happily goes down at 12 wakes on her own at 2.15 ish), has another nap at about 4 when we go for a walk (between 15 - 30 mins). She is wide awake between naps, except when she drifts off when feeding.

with regards to feeds - I fed her at 7 and she didn't really take much (kept falling asleep), just fed her again at 10.30 and did the same - not taking much, falling asleep. Her next feed is due at 2.30.

Do you feed her to sleep/until drowsy?

The feed at 6.15 is breast milk in a bottle (in an attempt to make DD's father, who I'm not with, feel involved - he comes round and baths and feeds her a few nights a week) and she always falls asleep on the bottle but will wake up 15 mins later and be WIDE awake. All other feeds are from the boob and once she's finished she wakes up and is happy playing on her mat or being read to, played with.

Its just very frustrating as I thought we had it cracked and was looking forward to some decent sleep (if it's not DD waking me up it my very noisy next door neighbours).

At a wild stab, it sounds like over the course of a couple of days she's got into the habit of feeding less during the day and more at night - I find my DS will do this is I don't keep on top of it!

Luckily my DS will continue to BF, lazily, if I just feed him for longer, and he would take a small BF before naps, so it only takes 24-48 hours to get him back on track if he begins feeding in the night more.

Have you tried the usual tricks to keep her awake - swap sides, burp, nappy change, interrupt feed for brief kickabout?

Is there any chance she would nap for longer if you stay out a few minutes longer in the afternoon? I know Gina Ford believes in a short nap at that time (not sure if you're following her, but your routine is v similar to hers), but I found DS wasn't ready to cut down to that level yet (he was getting overtired and not dropping off until after 10:30 feed, hysterics from 6:30 until then), and he has 40-50 mins in the afternoon now. It means he's awake a bit longer than I'd like in the evening (until at least 7:30, usually falls asleep around 8pm), but he is refreshed and falls asleep much more happily than he did with a shorter nap.

yes, i admit it is gina ford (i don't like to mention it as I know a lot of people don't approve and I'm not going to be told I shouldn't be doing it. It's worked really well up until now). Maybe she does need longer in the afternoon. I'll give it a go. Also, some days DD is happy to have a split feed (5pm and then after bath) but others she refuses to feed at 5 (gets very distressed) but this doesn't always mean she will take extra at the 6.15 feed.

I clock watch while i feed her, desperately trying to get her to feed for a minimum of 20 mins but most of the time she just doesn't seem bothered.

she is now down and out for the count (couple of tired cries but otherwise easy). I'll have to see how she feeds at 2.30

must step away now
good luck

Hi. We loosely follow Gina. DD is nearly 7mths and still needs an afternoon nap that finishes at 5pm to enable her to stay awake until 7pm (although her lunch nap is a bit hit and miss).

At 11 weeks, if she had only had a max of 30 mins ending at 4.30pm, she would have been in a state at bedtime. I would give her a slightly longet afternoon nap or I would start her afternoon nap at 4.30pm.

Also, re feeding her at 10.30pm and waking her-we used to do that and around 11wks, she wouldn't feed at that time if her woke her and she was just really grumpy. So we decided to do a dreamfeed at 11pm instead (don't wake the baby, pick out of cot, shove boob/bottle in mouth, no need for burping, straight back down).

This worked much better.

It may also be a phase. I am big fan of routines but don't stress out too much if you have a blip or you don't follow Gina's exact timings.

So I would recommend trying a later afternoon nap and a dreamfeed and see what happens.

Also, I remember around that age dd became a much fussier feeder as she became more interested in the world. It settles down though.

It's comforting to know others have had to same problem! I'm finding it particularly difficult because I'm on my own and can't hand her to someone else when she won't settle. I knew it would be tough but as I said before I thought I had it sorted!

Will try the longer afternoon nap and a dream feed at 11. (mind you, she pretty much sleeps through that feed anyway, I have to change her nappy to wake her up so she will feed from the other boob otherwise she won't take it)

Could you try giving her a bottle of expressed milk at the dreamfeed? I am mix feeding but I found that DD took more at the dreamfeed from the bottle than boob.

Meant to say too that even if you can't sleep, lie down when she has a nap and shut your eyes or read a magazine, just to give your body a bit of a rest.

The most frustrating things about babies is how quickly & unpredictably they change! This is my main problem with routines (although I too loosely follow the baby whisperer EASY routine): once I say ok, now we've got him figured out, right at that moment our baby surprises us!

As for the practicals: I would suggest, like the others, that you try to give your baby a bit more to eat during the day... Also, don't pay attention to how LONG your baby is eating for, because that too changes with time. E.g. at 11 weeks my DS fed for 20 mins or so; now he feeds for 10 mins altogether (both breasts included!) & he's putting on weight fine!

The other thing is, this might change in a few days without you even needing to change a thing. Just go with the flow, continue with your routine since it seems to be working for you, and believe that in a few days things will fall into place.

Don't worry, I believe in GF (with modifications to allow for the fact that she is bonkers to think an 11week old can cope on 3.5 hours sleep a day) and have success with her routines - don't care if people tell me it's because DS is naturally suited to it, or I'm being cruel or whatever!

I would give the longer afternoon nap a try, and (you're probably already doing this) if she doesn't want the first half of her feed at 5pm, don't push it, just give her a bath early and get her back feeding a bit early as well, in the hope she'll be relaxed enough to take a good feed

She woke up on her own at 2.10. Just finished a 45 min feed! Very sleepy one but pretty constant suckling so she should have had quite a lot (we usually only manage about 20 - 30 mins, if we are lucky). now wide awake and gurgling, trying to roll over!

I'll do a longer nap this afternoon (although she very rarely goes longer than half an hour).

Thanks very much for the advice and support. I'll let you know how it goes.

I did GF but not rigidly, but I never got them up for the dream feed because they just wouldn't wake up. I was fortuate as they were big girls and all slept through 7 til 7 very quickly.

Sometimes they do need more daytime sleep than others, growth spurt, being more alert, a little unwell etc.

Ok. Well, I tried the longer nap at 4pm but as I thought she woke up on her own after 25 mins. She pretty much refused a feed at 5pm and then only took 3oz at 6.10. Fell asleep by 6.30, wide awake at 6.40. Sat with her quietly until 7 and then put her to bed (having warmed her mattress as it was quite cold and I thought maybe this was bothering her), started crying (not distressed), left her for 10 mins, went in burped her and put her back down with a dummy. 5 mins later crying again, replaced dummy. Cried on and off until about 9pm (again not distressed just moany), just kept replacing her dummy. Left her until 11pm to feed and she did about 15 mins on one boob and 5 on the other (so not a huge feed). Slept through til 4.10am. Again, not a massive feed, about 15 mins.

As for today she woke up at 6am, had another feed but not big. Fed again at 7.30, again didn't take much. Slept from 9am to 9.35am. happily awake, not fussing. Refused a feed at 10.45/11am. Slept from 11.30 - 12.00, then from 13.00 - 13.30. Wide awake, refused a feed at 2.15, kept trying still didn't want anything at 2.45. Currently happily playing on her mat. Wide awake, not bothered!!

will take her for a walk shortly.

I think I'm in for a very long night!

Gosh, you poor thing! That really is a long stretch of refusing to feed, hope it doesn't make tonight too horrendous.

Is she a good weight? Lots of wet and dirty nappies etc? Since you say every feed is short, and she's not waking loads at night (although I know it must feel like it at the moment, especially with such limited help) I wonder if she's just cut down the length of time she needs to feed for.

I was thinking about you last night, and it occured to me that a very similar thing has happened to me recently - until about 9 weeks DS was feeding at 10:30pm, 4:30am (ish) and then needing waking at 7:30am for another feed (I also thought we were on track for getting through the night). Now he feeds at 10:30pm, 3-3:30am and is waking himself by 7am for a feed.
It's not such a problem for us, as DP gives him a bottle for the middle of the night feed, but interesting that the same thing has happened to both of us (although DS is still taking massive daytime feeds). However, DS is beginning to go a little bit later again - 3:30 rather than 2:30-3am, so I'm hoping he'll begin to inch longer and longer.

Are you on good terms with your DD's father? Is there any chance that he could stay a little longer on the nights he comes over - perhaps park himself in front of the TV with her - while you have a bath, or read a book in another room, or sleep?

Sorry, very rambly post, just thinking out loud!

I'm sure its just a blip. Last night was better as my mum had come to stay and I had a bit of support and a decent meal so feeling much better and a bit more positive.

DD's slept for about 45 mins this afternoon and had a feed at 4.50 for about 20 mins but wasn't big sucking so don't know if she had a huge amount. Currently happily kicking with her nappy off on her mat. I'm hoping she will take a big feed at 6.15.

she's of good weight as far as I know (she's not been weighed in a while) and we have wet nappies (bowel movements are every two days, so haven't had one today) and she is very smiley, chatty and happy during the day.

Who knows!?!? I'll see how tonight goes. Hopefully she'll be so tired she'll go straight to sleep (but I'm not holding my breath) she seems very awake right now.

Interestingly though it does prove she is capable of going for a good 9 hours without a feed so she should go through the night!!!

You are doing really well for 11 weeks, my DD was not as settled as this until about 5 months. Dont beat yourself up about it.