if they fall asleep bf-ing should I wake him to put him to sleep? (training)

[kalo12]

My nearly 9 month ds wakes every hour in the night, has been doing since 4 months, I bf to sleep and put him in his cot..

He obviously thinks night time is for feeding and he doesn't hardly eat during the day.

I want to start gentle sleep training and they all say put them down awake, but I feed him and he always falls asleep.

Any advice? When he wakes I have tried many ,methods other than feeding but it can last 5 hours regularly, so i always give in and feed.

DH works nights so only me to do anything.

Help

and again!

got to try and get some sleep myself after feeding him.

Boy do I understand how you feel!
My 6mth old is exactly the same. Before long, am going to be able to tie my nips in a bow. Nice.
Won't even nap without being 'attached'.
I'm alarmed at the idea of abandoning her to the "bad luck, you're in the cot - deal with it" approach, so...
I'm trying to whip the nip out at a strategic point. Often, she's just comfort sucking (check his breathing - if he's sucking for, say, 4 breaths, then resting for 4, he's probably comfort sucking), and whip it out at the start of the 'pause'. He'll object at first, and stir (she's still objecting quite often, so you have to start again. But it's gradually starting to work.
Hang on in there girly - and, in time, you'll have him hanging on less! (we hope!)

The other option is to slip a dummy in at the strategic point. But then the dummy falls out at some stage and you have to start again. And I'm worried about it creating dummy dependancy, then having to wean her off the dummy...so I'll stick to the 'whipping out' technique for now.
Or just resign myself to accompanying her to university.
Good luck Hun!

if you want him to sleep in his cot at night then get him to settle from awake in cot for naps-i know what you mean about needing that time but it is much easier to cope with the crying during the day and if they really don't settle you can always resort to buggy and a quick walk rather than going straight to the breast to settle him. When I did this with DS on another MNetters advice he started sleeping for longer stretches at night from being an hourly wakener. Oh and make sure the room is dark so it replicates the night time environment. i also put mine in a Gro bag for nights and naps, used the same lullaby CD and sometimes even resorted to a bath before nap time.

Boy do I understand how you feel!
My 6mth old is exactly the same. Before long, am going to be able to tie my nips in a bow. Nice.
Won't even nap without being 'attached'.
I'm alarmed at the idea of abandoning her to the "bad luck, you're in the cot - deal with it" approach, so...
I'm trying to whip the nip out at a strategic point. Often, she's just comfort sucking (check his breathing - if he's sucking for, say, 4 breaths, then resting for 4, he's probably comfort sucking), and whip it out at the start of the 'pause'. He'll object at first, and stir (she's still objecting quite often, so you have to start again. But it's gradually starting to work.
Hang on in there girly - and, in time, you'll have him hanging on less! (we hope!)

Damn - sorry ladies. Duped me original message.
Anyway, sorry LadyG - not sure about doing day naps in the dark. He may get really confused about day/night difference. I try to keep it pretty light when attempting to get her to do a daytime nap, so at least she'll realise that it's not the full monty yet.

It sounds like he is getting over tired to me. DD was the same and as my first DC I pandered to her every whim - as you do However I got to breaking point when bedtime was taking 4 hours of BFing in a darkened room.

We did a mild form of CC. I fed her from 7pm - 10pm and was in tears. DH suggested putting her down and leaving her. We had read alot about sleep training and I was petrified. I left her for 2 mins then went in and shusshed her and said sleepy time. Then left. I repeated at 5 mins and by the time I was due to go back at 9 mins she was asleep! She slept for hours.

It was not a cure all as she still work at night for BFs but she would feed and e happy to go back to sleep.

Make sure your lo is not confusing night and day - being awake from 12.30 - 5am is a sign he is struggling to tell the difference tbh. Unless they are ill by this age they should be settling fairly quickly during the night.

Hey Kalo - how did you get on?

wow thanks for your replies. Last night was pretty bad but I think it was largely due to fireworks, and I fell asleep twice feeding him sat upright in bed.

anyway he slept from 5 am til 7.15 this mornin g so i had a bit of a lie in.

he has gone to bed at 6 tonight. he was tired out cos we had to go out today and he didn't really nap as much as he should.

Will definately try to put him down awake at daytime naps.

Tried dummy loads of times he loves them , steals them from other babies, but will only chew the edges, and never sucks on them. I would prefer him to be dependant on a dummy for sleeping til he's 35 rather than me.

LOL - "dependant on a dummy for sleeping til he's 35 rather than me".

Hope this evening goes better for you.

How is it going? Hopefully the early night will help you both

the early night was brill. he slept from six til ten ! then he woke every two hours and only four times in total. i tried to put him to nap in his cot for his morning nap but he wouldn't have it and was just stood up in his cot, so i took him for a walk but he didn't sleep and has just fallen asleep now bf and then in pram, so i guess there is a bit of a knock on but hopefully i will be back on track for a six o clock bedtime tonight.

thanks

WOW - sounds great. Really pleased for you.

What time did he start the morning?

My DS is nearly 9m and has been mucking about wih trying to drop the am nap too. It depends what time he wakes up. Anything past 7.30 (not as though its happened for the past week or so) and he does not seem to want it. Like you, I take him out for a walk with the dog and if he really needs a nap, he will nod off.

Hope tonight goes just as well, if not better.

G

rubbish last night, rubbish tonight and its only ten past seven

Right back at you. DS has discovered rolling over (3months later than everyone else) and has decided it is much more fun that going to sleep.

That is until he is stuck on his front and then he screams until somebody comes in and turns him back again (yup, muggins me).

Are you on your own?

yes of course i am apart from the cage rattler!

don't they understand about prime time telly?

i am knackered so i hope i get at least an hours peace tonight. he's got more teeth coming through ffs. i don't know why he needs so many, he doesn't bloody eat!

LOL "cage rattler"

Reminds me - DS used to like kicking in the air so hard it banged his cot against the adjoining wall (it is on wheels) but haven't heard him do it for a while. Wonder why he went off it?

Hate to suggest drugs, but I take it you have "calpol"'d him?

no i haven't yet. i forgot bout that. am off to bed in a minute. i used a teething powder last night. he was laughing his head off for three hours after that! rolling about on my bed doing headstands and grinning like a bloody jack o lantern.
i think he's clinically insane.

a cot on wheels? do you rock him in it then?

Good news about the one good night, they will become more frequent honestly Finally they merge into one (and then they go and get Chicken Pox and it all goes out the window ).

Get the calpol set up for the next waking! Stick with it. How many teeth? DS only has the one but is make a song and dance about No2 on the way.

Hope Callmeovercautious is right. But she is a clever lady so I suspect so!

Cot on wheels - long story but briefly, I live in Germany where it is illegal to make/sell drop side cots (yes illegal). I have a dodgy back condition thingy. Neighbour gave us their old cot (30yrs old!) which has a half-drop side and it is on wheels, which turned out to be handy so we left them on.

ds has got 4 teeth already and now there are another FOUR coming through.

I'm not really sure he's human. he was awake 10pm till 6 am last night bar some sleep feeding and me sleeping sat up holding him.

I think he may be a nocturnal wild jackal.

what do the germans do then? they must put them to sleep awake.

I am going to do Gina ford strict routine as from today. Except for any leaving them to cry. Just the routines, I've free wheeled so far but it can't go on. I'm going to start the 9 to 12 month routine . he's 9 mth now so i'm hoping he'll get it by 12 myhs

Callmeovercautious, I hope you are right. i was praying last night as i lowered him into his cot!

4 teeth! What a little soldier.

Oh pants about last night though, sorry Kalo. Hope tonight goes better.

DS woke about every hour last night, but he did self-settle each time until about 6am. Second tooth is just breaking through. He actually napped well today so hoping tonight goes better.

Have you done GF before? I used to follow it but it just doesn't seem to work for DS - the nap routine that is. I found the structured feeding reeeeallllly useful though and my sister swears by it all. She used it on her first and is now on her second (7mo). Hope it works for you.

Oh, and all the Germans I meet don't seem to put them down awake OR have any kind of routine. They are very touch feely if you know what I mean. I was told off at baby group for leaving early becase DS was screaming tired - apparently I should have let him have a nap in my arms (not likely after weeks of sleep training to get him to sleep in his cot!!).

@ Gabster - Why is it illegal to make dropside cots in Germany? What madness is this?

kalo - your DS sounds like mine was at 6 months, when I cracked.

Its my thread about the constantly waking 6 month old here

Anyway, to summarise, I was so exhausted that we did the following:

• bedtime to 6pm (worked wonders)
• DS from bedside cot / co-sleeping to his own room
• initially CC then CIO as CC made DS really angry! for any wakeups before 3 hours since last feed (DH and I were too exhausted to settle him ourselves as he could tell how stressed we were)
• moved to 4 hours before feeds
• when he was reliably doing 2 feeds, we introduced a 10pm dream feed and I now often get to sleep between 10 and 4/5/6 without waking. He still does his 2 feeds, but when they suit me!

Anyway, we were consistent with leaving him for the first few weeks, and that fixed the worst - waking maybe 10 times a night. After a while we were more rested and now DH settles him if he wakes when he's not due a feed (no milk between 10 and 4). If he's ill, we feed whenever, but the worst he's done lately is a third feed.

I think CC/CIO is what you do when you're too exhausted to be consistent with anything more gentle. DS is definitely happier now he's sleeping better, and I have more energy to play with him.

Incidentally, at 6mo, DS was feeding mostly at night too, and as he slept better at night, he ate more in the day, which I think caused a positive cycle!

Good luck and I hope you find something that suits you.

It's not particularly nice weather but have you tried LOTS of fresh air? Really long walks?

Or a session in the swimming pool?

Good luck.