Gina Ford's routine..why doesn't it work for my 5 wk old

[nanette]

I am trying to follow Gina Ford's routine;however, it works only during the day. My 5 wk will not fall asleep at 7 p.m. and will keep me up until 1 a.m.

She doesn't have colic or reflux because she is consolable. She stops crying when she sees me walk in to soothe her.

Is anyone following this routine? Can you offer some advice on making the routine work

Hi Nanette

There are a lot of good people on mumsnet who will be able to give you advice on GF routines and who remember them better than me.

But can I ask you a fundamental question? What interests you about GF routines? Do you prefer having some order and control in your life? Or are you more interested in the concept of getting a good night's sleep sooner rather than later (know I was ).

I ask because, although I found GF very helpful, I would always say that if you are worried just because your baby is not acting in the way she predicts, then relax, because not all babies do.

Another way of putting this is, if your primary purpose for using GF is to get a good night's sleep, don't fall into the trap of believing that only a 'pure' GF routine will get you there. Other things, such as cuddling to sleep, will get you into a nice routine and there will be loads of time for breaking that habit when you have a bit more energy.

Good luck

nanette

how long are her daytime naps?

have you got a lulaby thingy in the cot - blackout curtain ?

is she then sleeping from 1 til 7?

nanette

congratulations on your new baby. you must be very proud and pleased.

at five weeks she is still very young, and there is plenty of time for her to settle into a routine.

if you are up to it, i recommend that you search on the mumsnet boards, you will find plenty of advice and - er - "commentary" on GF's routines and how they work (or don't) for young babies.

i would just go in and give her a cuddle if that's what she wants - she will only be a baby for what will seem like about 5 minutes! so try and enjoy it, if you possibly can, even though you must be extremely tired atm.

i recommend you ignore the tone of the book, plenty of people posting here (including me) have used the routines sucessfully without following them to the letter, starting them later on etc. do try and search the boards if you can - plenty of tips and reassurance there.

when my ds is being a bit clingy, i just remind myself of all those times in the future he's not going to want to know me and make the most of it!

i know this advice must seem really patronising. i got similar advice when my baby was about the same age as yours is now, and that's what i thought then. but with hindsight, i can see how right it was!

good luck!

Thank you for the advice...

Considering this is my first, I expected her to follow the routine. I am glad to know not all babies fall into the routine as GF predicts.

Although, I use the blackout curtains, let her sleep no more than 4 1/2 hours during the day, keep her up for the two hour social period...Olivia has her own schedule.

As suggested, I will enjoy my 5 week old and follow some of my instincts rather than depending on GF to establish a sleep pattern for my baby and me!!

I am new to the site and will search other comments regarding GF.

FYI..I changed the bath time routine and feeding schedule b/c I figured out that the bath was stimulating her rather than soothing her. Perhaps, this was preventing her from falling asleep at 7p.m.? I gave her a bath at 3 pm, nursed her after and she is now asleep (5:30 p.m. ). Sure, I need to feed her at 8-9 p.m. But we will see what happens tonight....

Nanette, I nearly drove myself mad trying to force my newborn into the GF routine. She was a very slow eater and very greedy so I used to be in despair trying to follow the routine only to find that dd's feed would go on for so long that it had crashed into the next 3 things I was supposed to do, according to Gina!

I was in despair and felt like I was getting it all wrong, which really affected my morale, so I ended up putting the book to one side and trying to go with the flow a bit more. Ended up feeding her to sleep every night, which enabled us all to get a bit more rest.

Then at 5 months I tried again. The GF routines worked like clockwork and my dd was very happy on her regime. I firmly believe that while the baby is very young it is only possible to follow GF to the letter if you are bottlefeeding. Breastfeeders seem to have their own agenda. Don't worry, your baby will fit into a routine when she's ready, you may just have to give her a few more weeks to adjust. They are so erratic while they're so little...even if she did follow the routine for a week she'd probably change the following week, just to keep you on your toes!

Good luck!

Nanette - if you have read any of the GF threads by now you will realise that it is one contraversial subject!! So many arguments, so many good rows....
IMHO every baby is unique and some benefit from strict routines as prescribed by GF and similar methods while other babies just don?t respond well and can even (dare I say it) suffer from the strictness of it all - just not being emotionally ready to be left to cry for the sugegsted times etc.. I guess what you have to consider is why you are following a routine in the first place - because you totally believe in the logic behind it as some kind of overall greater good or as a means to cope as well as possible, remain sane and happy? If it is all about coping and doing your best, then the last thing you need is a load of prescribed routines if they are failing to work for you. Life as a new mum is tough enough without worrying about even more standards to maintain! I threw the GF book away and felt instantly better by accepting that by failing to follow it I was not failing as a mum. I comforted my child when iI felt she neede it and took each night as it came. She and I found our own routine in our own time and I felt much happier. I am not suggesting you bin your book, just consider that maybe at night she isn?t ready for the strict routine - after all, as adults we don?t all magically fall asleep at a set time each night - depends on loads of other factors. I slowly weaned my daughter away from needing my constant presence when falling asleep little by little. When she woke up crying, I left her for five minutes before going in, then a few nigths later, 10 mins, slowly getting longer and longer intervals so that she grew accustomed to it in a gradual way. Worked for us so might be worth a spin. As for bedtimes, as lots of others have said before, whole evening routine helps - meal, play, bathtime, story in calm, dimly lit room etc. winding them down naturally, all helps increase the chances. I have waffled on enough - good luck, it will improve eventually

I just wanted to follow the routine so that I can remain sane and get some sleep at night.

This last week, I slightly modified the routine. The baby doesn't settle well at 7 p.m. but rather than drive myself crazy trying to follow the routine, I just hold my little social being and bring her to the TV room. She eventually falls asleep around 8:30 p.m.

I wanted to keep my sanity by following the GF routine, but by going slightly adjusting the routine to suit our schedule and the baby's.

Thanks for all the advice..it is good to know that I am not the only one with GF issues.

Nanette - GF was fantastic for dd4 (now 10 months) but she wasn't settled as early as 5 weeks - more like 7 or 8! Just keep to a 'sort of' routine and it will all fall into place - promise! One thing, have you tried swaddling her? She's young enough for her own movements to keep startling her. Swaddling is usually the answer until about 8 - 10 weeks. Hope it helps.

hello nanette

i was thinking about you today and wondering how you were getting on. having given you the touchy-feely speech, i've been racking my brains for practical tips. it's hard to think of any as your dd is so young still, but i did wonder if she might be over-tired if she has been wanting to sleep more during the day and you have been getting her up? maybe you haven't been doing this. or it could just be that 8.30 is the time she likes to go to sleep atm!

anyway, glad to hear you are finding a compromise path. best of luck!

Nanette - this was the bit we found most difficult as well. Dd just did not want to sleep in the evening. But then she would be so overtired that it would take a screaming fit to get her to sleep after the 10.30feed. we made sure dd always got 30mins nap by taking her out for a walk about 8.30ish, she would then settle well after the last feed.
It took until about 4 months before she was doing 7 -10.30 fast asleep though.

to add my tuppence' worth - how is your baby usually falling asleep - on her own, or 'helped' as it were, by you. i.e. feeding, rocking, holding, marching up and down, jiggling.....you know the score I found that once I had bitten the bullet and allowed mine to learn to fall asleep on his own, even if it meant 5 mins crying (that was max. though) he could get himslef off at night much easier. Although, IMO 5 weeks is very young to expect this to happen, you should probably try and start now, or just think about that kind of thing, if you want to avoid getting into bad habits later on. I left my ds to settle himself mid way through the daytime sleep (a sure fire waking moment if they have difficulty settling alone!) at 10 weeks, and by 12 he was sleeping 7 - 7, with the 10.30 feed. He didn't have much trouble sleeping at 7ish, though, he was usually knackered by then. You should make sure his afternoon is properly structured, with pm sleep not too late, lots of play, good bath & wind down period etc. If nothing works, 5 weeks is sooooo young, just give it a go in a couple of weeks. Even if you don't do gf, her tips are really good.

Can I just say, from the bottom of my heart, that if GF isn't suiting, or your baby has found her own routine, or has different ideas about when she wants to sleep or wake, then let her. I put myself in hospital with severe PND trying to make the routine work with a baby who had other ideas. GF is not the only way, and not even the only routine. If it works for you, great. If not, find another way.
Most of all, enjoy your gorgeous daughter. I wish I had been able to.

I followed the GF routines when my DD reached 8 weeks old. Before that I felt as if she had had a scary experience and was being exposed to a whole new world, so felt that she should be with me as much as possible to give her some comfort. We followed the routines to the letter for 1 week before she slept through the night. Like other people I think the routines work really well when adapted to meet you and your baby's needs and for a first time parent, I found that they allowed me to remain calm and to help me work out why my baby was crying. Good luck, your baby is still very young and will settle down in the near future

My six week year old is on a GF routine and pretty much does as he's supposed to accept that he is still waking between 2 and 3 every night like clockwork and showing no sign of going a longer stretch as GF says he should. GF's advice now is to offer cooled boiled water in the night to put him off waking so early. Has anyone tried this and did it work - I'm inclined to try it as otherwise baby is very happy on her routine but then again it does seem a bit extreme for a six week year old?

imo, it is too soon. from what i remember, it was at least 8/9 weeks at the earliest before expecting the 10.30/11.00pm - 7.00am stretch, and longer for totally bf babies. i've got the earlier edition of the book.

i know you must be really tired with all this night waking, but i would leave it longer before trying to cut out this feed. if your baby is following the rest of the routine well she is doing fantastically well!

Roberta, you don't say if you're bottle or breast feeding. I followed GF with my dd (now 2), and found it worked well, although I was a bit over zealous in the beginning.

However, my dd continued to wake for one feed in the middle of the night (between 3 and 4am) until she was about 5 months old. I was breast feeding and I do recall the book saying that a night feed was highly likely with breastfed babies until 5-6 months (I think). Even then, she would only go from 11pm to about 5.30-6am. I just worked on extending that core period gradually. I've never bottle fed but I would imagine that some bottle fed babies are going to genuinely need a feed in the middle of the night at this point too. If yours is only 6 weeks old I don't think it's that surprising.

As various other people have said in this thread (and others!) GF is not to everyone's taste. Some people need to feel in control of what is a pretty overwhelming experience, and it may be that it suits them better to follow a routine. But IMO the routine should never become the be-all and end-all. I look back on those early weeks with my dd and wonder if perhaps I lost out a bit because of my mania in following the plan! (It's hard though, because equally, my dh and I loved the fact that we've had pretty much every evening together from the beginning.)

Trust in the fact that even if the routine is pretty loose at the moment, it will work out OK in the end for you. I used to feel that one slight deviation was going to wreck things - but it honestly doesn't. It's important to listen to your own instincts and that of your baby too!

An update on my now 8 week year old. I didn't do the boiled water thing because he got the flu - we all had it - so I put Gina down and demand fed for a few days - he was so poorly there was no way he would have been able to stick to a routine and as soon as he was better he was starving and playing catch up. Last few days I've tried her routine again (loosely) and last night he went from 11.15 to 6 (of course my four year old was up three times but hey ho!). He is completely breastfed by the way and it's true GF says breast fed babies might still be waking in the night at this age although she says that with luck it should be between five and six. So Bossykate you were right, he probably was just too young to be going for a longer stretch and as he's grown he's going longer naturally. The moral is I think, don't force them, they get there in the end.

Here's an update..3 weeks ago I couldn't understand why the GF routine was not working for my five week old. She is now 8 wks and still cannot settle at the 7-10 period. She is sleeping from 11pm-5am.

Bossykate, you are probably right. I think she becomes so overtired that she can't fall asleep. GF suggests a nap no longer than 3-4 hours at her age but I still feel that she needs longer.

Nannette. If she is sleeping 11-5 at 8 weeks be happy! Is she going down easily at 11pm an her other naps, or does it take a while?
If she is happy to stay between and 10, I would let her. My dd was just like this. It was probably a terrible thing to do but I used to put dd in front of the TV in her bouncy chair for parts of the evening whilst I ate. She started going to sleep easily at 7 by about 12 weeks, but would wake after an hour or so and come and sit with us until the 10pm feed. Gradually this sleep got longer, until I actually had to wake her for the 10pm feed (That was such a wonderful evening)
It's just my own personal theory, but I think she just didn't actually need as much sleep in those early days. It seemed that needing the evening nap coincided with her learning to roll and becoming a bit more active.

Roberta - I'm glad you've found your own happy way of doing Gina.

Prufrock, you are right I should be happy. I am. It is getting better. It is still hard for her to settle but I can't let her cry it out. If I notice that she doesn't fall asleep by 7:30 pm, I will just keep her up. My dd doesn't mind settling herself to sleep in her swing ..meanwhile my husband and I have dinner. The most important thing I have learned is to be flexible.

My dd also settled well after the 10.30 feed and slept through until 5 then 6 then 7 o'clock at 7 weeks, but like you I used to let her nap in front of the tv from 7:00-10:00. As she increased her napping time from which was always until I woke her at 10:00 but she would fall asleep at 9 then 8.30, 8 o'clock etc I started to put her in her cot so that she became used to waking up in the cot for the 10:00 feed. The earlier she began to settle in front of the tv was when I decided that now was the time to put her in the cot again for sleeping and this worked. She kept up this pattern from 8 weeks until 13 weeks and after a few hiccups to the routine last week is hopefully back on track. Keep consistent so that she knows you are boss but enjoy her and cuddle her if she needs to get into the routine and then use the cot.