15 months and still doesn't sleep through the night. Help!

[candidaj]

Ted wakes every night, always has. On a good night he wakes once or twice and then wants to start the day at about 5:45am. On a bad night he wakes 4-5 times and wants to start the day at 5am.
We don't let him sleep more than 1.5 hours during the day - 20 mins in the morning (he falls asleep as we collect or drop off his sister from school) and then 1 hour after lunch, after which time we wake him. During the day he goes to sleep on his own fine, always has, in a buggy. Never in the cot during the day. At night he also goes to sleep fine but he wakes anywhere between 1-4 times a night. We go in, replace his dummy (is this the problem?), he goes back. Usually it's not difficult to get him off, sometimes it requires a little while, some back rubbing and a silent exit. By 5am, when he usually wakes, we're so tired that we bring him into bed. Sometimes he goes back to sleep with us, often he doesn't. It used to be 4am! We've tried controoled crying but it just seems to send him the message that if he cries, we go in, things never improve.

His sister slept through at 9 weeks, from 7pm - 7am.

He never gets more than about 12 hours sleep in 24 and is often tired and grumpy during the day. He eats well. Can someone help me please? Is the problem the dummy? Is he overtired? Should I just ignore him at night? (I'm so tired that that's what i want to do) Some friends say i should put him in with his big sister for 'company'. HELP!!

Are you writing about my child?

Seriously our 14 month old dd is like this. "his sister slept through at 9 weeks, 7pm-7am" - yep our first was like that too.

12 hours sleep in 24 hours is probably not enough. Why on earth are you waking him up from his nap? Have you ever felt better after being woken up? I haven't. Overtiredness = terrible nights. Oh, and DS 20 mth still wakes up 4+ times a night. You were very spoiled lucky with your DD.

You may have heard of this, but 'controlled crying' worked well for us. First cry I would go in, pick up hold, soothe, consider small drink of water only, check nappy, then back in cot. Leave for around 10min. Still crying? Go back, don't pick up, soothe in cot, stroke between eyes/over forehead, repeat 'sleep,sleep' quietly (or choose own word), if standing up, keep laying down, only take around 5 min, leave. Still crying, give around 20min, go in, no eyecontact, no sound, laydown, make cosy, leave. Still crying? Nip in lay down after 20 min, walk straight out. Being layed down repeatedly after 20-30min intervals is boring to babies/toddlers. They know you're there (i.e safe), but they also know there is nothing to be gained (i.e. no eyecontact or attention), Can take days, can build to longer periods i.e. 40 min if cries not high-pitched. If a break of 1 hr between 1'st cries you could start again(i.e. your bby re-awakens), but try later stage as may only need to know you're there. Can come back, but process worked for us! Dd slept 50:50 at 6 mths, on and off spells, but for last year loves sleep (is 2.5), if she cries I only go in and lie her down and the reassurance of me doing that is enough for her to sleep. Hope it works, there are variations on this, and some say it's cruel, but I think to leave to do some self-settling is useful laer in life!

My 16 month old DD hasnt been up that many times in general- so sympathy vibes floating out to you, you must be knackered. What she did do was almost every night wake up once, maybe 4/5/6 am, and be so upset she'd have to come into bed with me or it just went on forever, and then in bed be too happy/excited to sleep, just petting me and stroking for an hour or so. Also would never sleep in cot in day or fall asleep in it at night- at night had to transfer her to cot when fast asleep- this would often wake her too. 2 months or so we'd had enough.....We did 2 things that sem to have helped- one was I tried to make her cot more cosy and welcoming, and her room as a whole in fact- animal patterned bed sheets, several teddies in cot, new baby friendly rug, got rid of blackout blinds altogether- and for the first few days of our changes tried to play in there with her for a while in the day- nothing to stimulating, just books/teddy type games. It just occured to me that she wasnt in there much and when she was waking to a cot we had sneaked her into in the dark it was probably scary. So before naps/bedtime I changed the routine from stories.songs.cuddle until asleep in bed next to cot to story/song in bed then get up and kiss all bears in cot good night then saying goodnight and putting her in the cot. Then for the next step I tried the supernanny 'sleep separation' technique, which I found a video of on the internet. You just sit near them not making eye contact, sort of meditating type pose! and DD would generally quickly bore of looking at me/crying, make a few gurgles to her bears and fall asleep. We didnt follow it exactly, your supposed to sit a bit further away each night, but we sat in the same place for a few nights, then it became obvious she was happy enough to be kissed goodnight and left in the cot to sleep and I could leave the room. I know its not falling asleep in the cot thats the problem for you, but it could be a bit simialr in thhat training your DS to be comfortable in his cot environment during the day could help him feel less frightened there for when he wakes at night.

We have really noticed especially that the day would sometimes start around the 6.30/7 mark before whereas now shes rarely crying to get up before 7.45 and we have all slept in till 9 twice lately!!! She seems happy tp play with her teddies on her own for a while in the mornings. Also she sleeps better in the day, usually 2-3 hours in the afternoon. And I dont have to cuddle her to sleep for ages so Im loving her naptime now.

Have to say though we had had to go back to the begnning of the technique for the last 2 nights cos Ive been ill and couldnt walk her, also perhaps she picked up on us being worried.

So maybe try to get you DS to nap in the cot during day. Perhaps a longer nap too? Sounds like the dummy may be a problem as well. Does he get plenty of fresh air and walking, have really noticed seems to be the big thing for us, days where I mainly push her round while I do shops/chores dont seem to suit her sleeping. Hope this helps, sorry if its totally off the mark, like I said we didnt have that frequent night wakenings but it might still be a bit similar.

Thanks to all who have replied! I really appreciate the time and effort you've put in. I think perhaps I shouldn't wake him in the day, as Ches said, but when I started doing this at least he went from 4am to 5am, so I'm fearful to return.

Lilacpink The thing with controlled crying is that we've tried it. I got us half-way there (afterwards there were fewer wakes and rarely between 7pm-2am) but no further. His progress stopped there. And anyway, he always goes back to sleep when we go in, so there's no need to control his crying, except in the early morning (like 5am). Have any of you tried controlled crying in the morning? It's bad enough at night. in the morning it's a killer! Indeed, can it be done in the early morning? It always felt like a night problem resolution rather than an early morning waking problem resolution, if you get my drift.

daydreambeliever did you do the supernanny technique in the morning? Didn't your child just want to stand up and look at you if you were in its bedroom room? My son would be playing jack in the box if I'm there.

Only just worked out what DD and DS is! Where you do find the jargon???

all Wine already in glass. Think I just heard him.

I agree with letting him sleep more in the day. I'm convinced that poor sleeping in the day results in poor sleeping at night. My LO is 15 months and has been a bit hit-and-miss with her sleeping, but for the last few nights has slept through. She naps for 2 hours after lunch (I usually have to wake her to do the school run).

I've also started to sit her in her highchair for a chopped banana and cup of milk before bed and I think this has really helped. A growth spurt perhaps?

Candidaj, We did the supernanny thing for putting her into bed at ngith and for putting her down for her nap (1pm ish). It was interesting because we'd had a couple of go's at controlled crying in the months before, and she'd cried herself into such a state both times we just caved in after 40 mins or so and said sod this we'll stay as we are. Then the supernanny thing was completely different, a bit of standing and talking and yes i do give her little kisses and weaken from my buddha posture thing but then i try to focus on the wall and she gets bored and plays then falls asleep , but she has never cried like with the controlled crying thing, not even now that we usually leave the room before she's asleep.

But what convinced me to give it a go was the on the supernanny vid the mum and son who are trying to sortr it out, the little fella is so physically able he is leaping out of the cot again and again for hours after his mother tries to put him down. Supernanny has him sorted and asleep in half an hour or so. We watched it and went, oh blimey, thats going to be us in a few months if she doesnt start to like her cot a bit more. That I could not handle!

There is a lot of jargon isnt there, its great when one suddenly dawns on you!

Thanks again. What's LO by the way?

maybe more sleep in the day...

Mine definitely has no issues with the cot. he loves it. Never a whimper when we put him in at night. The problem isn't that he wants to leave the cot, he just wants us to pop in 4 times a night. We just say "down" and he drops like a stone, usually, but until 5am there's no problem (except the very fact that he wakes us). It's at 5am that I need some solution. Can I do controlled crying then? This supernanny technique would just cause him to get up by then as he's slept enough to see play as an option at that time of day.

I feel almost ashamed asking it but what do any of you think about me just leaving him all night? I mean, switch the listener off. Set the alarm for 7am. Presumably he'll soon get the message (obviously if I thought I could do it, I would have by now, but I'm kind of hoping someone out there gives me the necessary push...)

LO is Little One.

Trouble is if you turn the monitor off, you might miss something. In my experience they do go through a phase of waking up at 5am for a while - I don't know why, they just do. Personally I get up and start my day then - but I'm a morning person. It means I can get all my stuff done before the other 3 get up (and I can then MN for the rest of the morning guilt-free ). Just make sure you go to bed early enough.

I could do 5am after a night's sleep (I did with Ted's sister). It's the combination of the early start after the 4 wakes that's killing me.

MN?

OMG It's so good to hear someone else with exactly same probs. Sorry, not v.sympathetic but I'm delirious from sleep deprivation. My ds2 is 12 months and is exactly same apart from he wakes more frequently - last night it was 11 times, some nights it's more, some a bit less. He likes his cot too and no probs with him going down - it's just like something pokes him awake all night until he wakes up for jolly play at 6 / 6.30. Does your LO settle as soon as you pop the dummy in most times?

Hi to everyone on the thread going through similar stuff...

I have got hold of a copy of the "no cry sleep soluton" by Elizabeth Pantley, which seems to be what I need (if it works). I managed to remove the dummy at 7.05 this evening just as she was drifting off into a light sleep - she has stayed settled.

I will feed back as to if it works through the night! I really hope so - last night we were up about 5 times and I have had enough.

Get rid of the dummy. Your DS is reliant on it to get to sleep and is using it as a prop. Do it cold turkey. You may have some crying (horrible I know) but it will be worth it for both of you.

You can stay with him for e.g 20 mins while he cries. Stroke his head, hand on chest. Leave for a few mins, back in for a few mins etc etc until he falls asleep.

candidaj - after I took the dummy out at 7.05 last night she slept until 4am. NO stirring, no needing it replacing etc. I was too knackered at 4am to try witholding it again, so after a quick feed brought her in with us and she settled again from 5-7am.

I'm hoping last night wasn't a one off.

p.s. the approach that suits us is no crying, but I know that everyone has opinions on this and we all do what is best for us as individuals.

Definitely try more sleep during the day and possibly think about weaning him off the dummy?