What to do in the mornings before 'getting-up time' ??

[BigBird]

My dd is 14 mths. Going to bed at night is fine, and during the night she might wake a few times but I'm ok with that and have my routine and know what to do (I go in and lay her back down and give her the soother and rub her head/back for a few seconds and leave - she usually doesn't cry but if she does I'll leave her for 5-10 mins and repeat !). My problem is with mornings. Sometimes she will sleep till 7:30, other times she wakes at 6. Now on weekdays I usually get up at 7:00 and up till now if she woke any time between 6 and 7 I would figure she wasn't going back to sleep and take her in to my bed for a cuddle before getting up. Sometimes she would doze off but not very often. DH is eager to stop this habit of coming into the bed (which I agree with stopping btw) but I don't know what else to do. The usual routine we do during the night is pointless as she is not as tired at this time. We have tried calming her, laying her down but she freaks when we leave the room, so basically the mornings she does wake early (maybe 3 or 4 a week) one of us ends up sitting in her room rubbing her back till its getting up time. To me a snuggle in our bed would be nicer than this but again we don't want her to expect getting into our bed every morning. What would you suggest for this situation ? This morning DH wanted to let her cry it out (would have only been 20-25 mins) but I couldn't bear it and went in after 5. I think its different to letting her cry at bedtime or in the night. We leave toys in her cot but she doesn't seem to want to play with them - just to shout for us! Any advice appreciated.

I may not be the best person to say anything here because my dd is not sleeping well. But the question is, how long has she slept before she wakes up? If she has had enough sleep, it will be very difficult for you to force her to go back to sleep and I doubt that letting her cry it out will work. Have you tried shifting her bedtime to a bit later each day and see if that helps?

I think that if you want to stop the habit of bringing her to bed in the morning, just don't do it. You will have to get up with her though.

I totally agree that letting her cry in the morning (when she's already ready to get up) is different from letting her cry at night (when all she wants is to go back to sleep). Even Ferber said babies can only sleep so much, you may have to adjust your expectations or other parts of the schedule.

IME early mornings are a much harder problem to crack than not sleeping through, not going down easily, etc, and I agree that to an extent you've got to go with her timetable on this one. Did you see the documentary some time ago (Dr Robert Winston one, I seem to remember) which said babies really vary in the amount of sleep they need. He illustrated it by showing a Mum who loved her sleep and didn't get her ds up until she was good and ready - which sometimes meant he had been awake and alone in his cot for over 4 hours. Everyone I know who saw it found it extremely upsetting.

The good news is that they need more sleep as they go on (up to a point). My ds used to wake regularly between 6am and 6.20am for a long time. Now at age 2 he has the same bedtime but wakes between 7.10 and 7.45 (fantastic when you get one of those on a weekend )

How baby proof is your upstairs? I used to get DS up, change his nappy and then go back to bed. He would play in his room, wander between his and our room, maybe bring us a book to read to him in bed etc. That way its up to her.

Agree with NQWWW that my DS has gradually started to sleep later partly as his daytime sleep has reduced. Does your DD still have two naps?

My ds always woke at 6-6.30 and came into our bed - no way would he go back to sleep at that time. Now he is 5 he stays in his bed and doesn't want to come anywhere near us. Dd is 3 and an early riser - as a baby she woke at 5.30-6, now she sleeps until 6-6.30 then comes in for a cuddle. I think that in the morning if they've woken because they've had enough sleep then they won't go back to sleep, and of course after a night without you they want to be with you - it's not unreasonable.

My DS ( now 18 months ) used to wake up at 6ish. Too early for me, 7 is a much more civilized time. I just used to leave him to it and after a while ( a few days ) he realised that he wasn't getting any attention and didn't get up to 7ish. That sounds terribly cruel but it wasn't like he was bawling his eyes out, just shouting or singing to himself - no sign of any distress.

Now, he tends to wait until I go and get him up - at 7-7.30am. He is normally lying there awake quite happily. If he hears me in the kitchen he'll make a little noise so that I know he's awake. Its not like he sleeps longer, more that he has learnt how to have a lie in ( hurrah !! ).

Unless your DD is bawling her eyes out why don't you just leave her. If she has toys in her cot then she has something to play with. Certainly she should be at the age when she can amuse herself for a while.

We did try controlled crying in the evenings - it seems like a long time ago - to get a bed time routine going. Our DS cryed for about half an hour, but we only had to do it about three times for him to get the message. I do remember how hard it was with my DP and I sitting there in the living room holding on to each other.

The same principle appears to have worked in the morning, although we did not have the same amount of tears.

Saying all this our DS is not particularly stubborn - if something is not working he gives up and just gets on with it.

When my ds wakes up we get him and bring him into our bed for a short cuddle which is really for our benefit - it lets us come round gradually. I don't think 6-7am is that unreasonable - particularly as ds has woken at 5.30 for three days now (think it might be time to cut those naps down - curses ). Why don't you want her to have a cuddle in bed with you in the morning? I think it's one of the very biggest perks of parenthood - and in this case it's not her habit - it's yours! I also think that if your child hates being on her own in the am and is very young, you may well have to bite the bullet and either let her in for a cuddle or get up with her and start the day. Otherwise, put her to bed later and/or cut down daytime sleep so she will sleep longer. But I think it is a very rare child who can sleep longer than 11-12 hours at a stretch. My dh and I take turns being the one to get up and give him breakfast, so we always feel we have plenty of 'lie-ins'. At weekends we can sleep to 9am or so on one of the days. Lovely!

Thanks for all the great advice. She goes to bed at 8pm and is usually asleep by 8:15-8:30 so I don't think a 7am is too bad to hope for.
I do love having her in for a cuddle in the morning but dh now thinks its becoming too much of a habit and she will expect it whenever she wakes and I kind of agree (even though I love the cuddling). I guess he would like her to be like Kaz22's ds - that would be the ideal situation and I guess thats why he wants us to leave her cry in the mornings. It's not upset crying - more a shouting cry. I find it very hard though as I feel she wants us. She would be still quite sleepy and not ready for food or anything. I think I might try what Kaz33 did for a week or so and if it isn't working then maybe one of us go in and play with her in her room or I'll talk dh around to having her in the bed again. I do see his point though - if she wakes and we see it's after 6am and say 'well, it's nearly morning lets have her in the bed' then it will become something she gets used to that even a short wake in the night she might want to come in as she won't know the time. Does this make sense....like she can't tell that one wake is too early for mummys bed but another wake is fine for it. I suppose we want to be consistent. And we both sleep much better when she is not in our bed.

Bozza - she only has one nap and upstairs isn't that childproof yet but I would consider doing what you suggested in a few months - sounds so cute wandering in with the book !

NQWWW, I remember that bit from child in our time, and agree it was distressing -but I think the mother was actually clinically depressed rather than this being a conscious plan.
I think I go along with kaz33 on this. Early mornings are difficult but I think you can influence it, to a degree.
ds is 15 months. I basically try to discourage the day starting before 6.30 - so this means going in and soothing (minimal talking and no lights, as if in the middle of the night) - which increasingly does get him back to sleep for a short while. I have also left him to cry, which he will do intermittently at this time - usually I give up after 10-20 mins. Certainly I have never started the day before 6am - I would treat this like a night waking. The only time I've had a persistent problem with early waking (6ish) is over Christmas when we got in the habit of getting him up at the first cry, so as not to disturb others - so I am convinced that while we might not be able to make him sleep until 7, we could easily inadvertently encourage him to wake earlier, IYSWIM.
I am also finding that he is increasingly happy to amuse himself in the cot (reading especially) - this has only happened in the past few weeks - but I've become aware that he is often awake for some time before he calls for us now.
If we bring him into our bed he just plays and bounces around with great delight - its not a peaceful cuddle! - so I only do this once its past 'getting up time'.

Gosh, I have just read my mail and it looks like I leave my DS for an hour or more on his own awake.

He definitley does sleep longer than he used to - my DP was concerned that we were being cruel and did get up one morning at 6am and sit in his room until he woke up - at 7.20am. But I do feel that he sleeps longer and dozes in the morning because he knows that it isn't time to get up yet.

Again like Elliott, DP and DS do not know how to have a quiet morning cuddle - its always a huge romp. I like going and getting DS up in the morning, we normally sit and have a little cuddle before I get him dressed and ready for the day.

Good luck BigBird.

kaz33, don't worry - that wasn't how I read it at all!!

One question - for those of you whose d-kids play quietly in the cot when they wake, do you have a lamp/nightlight on all night? DD's room is very dark (blackout lining) and we do have a very dim nightlight which we only switch on when we go in for a night waking but it's too dim to play or read with. Maybe I could try getting a little lamp and some toys and I could go in and if the soothing doesn't work then switch on the lamp and leave in some books (perhaps a cup of milk, cookies, portable tv, sweeties.....we might get a lie in till 9am here)!

My DS's room is dark, but light does come in from around the blinds. I don't actually leave any toys in with him, I never got into the habit though was thinking about introducing some cuddly toys (another subject). He is still very sleepy and normally lies or sits there chewing on his muslin. I suppose he looks at the shadows, listens to the noise outside...

I think the toys idea sounds good. I wasn't sure whether you should leave toys in there cots, but can't think of any reason why not.

Since coming back from holiday, DS (15mths) has been waking early (around 5-5.30), having a BF and (sometimes) going back to sleep in bed with me for another hour. I know he's tired, otherwise he wouldn't go back to sleep! But can't get out of the BF habit, he just cries otherwise. Have tried just giving him one breast and then putting him back to his cot - works sometimes but usually just for half an hour max.

He usually has 2 naps during the day, but they are both really short - 30-40min at the most, usually less. Basically by 11am he's knackered, sleeps for a short burst then is up again, and then naps again around 4pm (have to admit I resort to another BF for this one) - so far I seem to get him off to bed around 7.30pm though. We just can't seem to get into a routine!!! And the early mornings are killing me - I don't sleep too well with DS attached to my breast, whipping on and off like a madman and squirming around.

I'm thinking about giving up the BF (another thread maybe) but am at a loss as to what to do in the morning - if it were a reasonable hour we could just go straight to breakfast, but I'm far too lazy to give breakfast at 5 in the morning. Any ideas?

I have to say, I totally disagree that coming for a morning cuddle will mean your dd will start waking for it in the night. To me, it's like saying that if you give her breakfast in the morning, she'll want it in the middle of the night! I suspect your dh wants this new regime a lot more than you do and wonder why. How often does he get up with her? If you take it in turns neither of you would feel exhausted. That's what we do. I feel like a really militant feminist this afternoon! You say she often sleeps until 7- 7.30 but sometimes wakes at 6am - that sounds really normal to me. My ds is 17months and has never really played with toys in his cot. I don't object in principle to leaving children to cry - I got my own son sleeping through like this - but personally can't see the point if they sleep all night and wake up early but not freakishly so.

Kaz33 - don't worry, my DS often has an hour alone when he wakes up, like your's, he's happy playing and looking at his books, occasionally he will call out for mummy or daddy but he doesn't persist, I really don't think there is anything wrong with being happy with your own company - even for a young child - they need to learn that they can't be constantly amused by other people (no doubt not everyone would agree with this viewpoint).

Also, like Elliott, there is no such thing as a 'quiet cuddle' it's a great big rugby scrum, shouting, leaping on & off the bed ...... so that's why we leave him until a more reasonable time!

My DS's have always been early risers, I've just come to accept it. DH or I usually get up as they always want breakfast as soon as they wake.
They are now 4yo and on the weekend, we just make them some toast, go back to bed and they are quite happy watching the TV, but when they were younger we would stay with them. Now, they are old enough to come and get us if they want us.
So it does get easier even if he continues to wake early.

They will play in their bedroom if it is really early.
This morning they woke us at 4:50am complaining they could not find thier torches...AAAHHHHH !!!

bigbear, I don't leave toys in the cot (except for a steadily increasing family of soft toys). I'll go in and put the light on and give him a few books and this will keep him happy for 20-30 mins or so - usually just enough time to get through the shower, we're not talking luxurious lie-ins here! The times I've heard him happily awake he's just been 'talking' to himself - or perhaps to his cuddly toys - its only by chance we've discovered this as we're usually asleep until roused by shouting! I think it is probably happening more often than we were aware.
I agree that your mornign cuddles are highly unlikely to lead to any problems in the middle of the night. I think it just depends how bothered you are by unsociably early starts - personally I am a bit of an owl, and have a disproportionate dislike of early mornings - they seem to leave me knackered all day.
Florenceuk, no advice about how to stop the bf, but I would imagine that it is more the comfort/habit that he wants rather than the food, and if you manage to stop it he may sleep late enough to go straight to breakfast.

oops, bigbird, sorry

aloha - we take it in turns too. In fact last night she woke twice. My turn was a 1 minute soother and straight back to sleep, and dh's was a vomit all over the cot, clean up cot and baby ordeal !!

She nearly always wakes 1-4 times a night anyhow so although I don't think morning cuddles will cause more waking I just think that waking at 1am, 3am or 5am will mean trying to get her back asleep in her own cot but a 6am wake (when to her it's still as dark) will mean our bed = confusion. Anyhow - I think I will go with one of us trying to settle her in her room with a book/toy and dim light till its time to go downstairs.

Thanks to all.

The morning cuddle is the best time of the day. Most days as I go off to work I leave dh and dd and teddy in bed with a coffe for him and a bottle for her, having a cuddle and discussing what they are going to do today. (Swings, ducks, visit granny?)

Hi Bigbird, sorry if I slandered your dh! You hear about a lot of lazy gits on this site Again, personally, I don't think your dd's very normal and average 6 to 7.30 wakeup times are your problem. Your problem is the night wakings and they are completely solveable without having to drop the morning cuddle if you don't want to. I honestly don't believe they are connected in any way. My ds comes into bed with us (briefly) every morning but never wakes at night. His morning waking is also in the dark as I have blackout blinds and, let's face it, until a month ago it was pitch black at 7am anyway, but ds still knows it is different from a nighttime waking. Probably because he has had enough sleep and isn't tired. I am, but he isn't! I have never read or heard anything to suggest that morning cuddles and night wakings are linked. If you want to knock the night wakings on the head - and I totally understand that - you might want to buy a couple of books on sleep (NCT, Ferber, whatever) or look at threads on this site for ideas (controlled crying, Elizabeth Pantley, the kissing game etc etc). Good luck.

Agree with Aloha - our 28m ds sometimes wakes in the night and (at tho moment we're all sharing a room) will ask to come into our bed, but is happy with a firm 'no, you have to sleep in your cot'. Then in the morning he gets into our bed to have his bottle and we all have a cuddle. It's the best time of day !

Thanks Aloha. We did controlled crying for bedtime and it worked a treat. I suppose we have half tried it for night time but for me a quick 30 second pop in to put the soother back in is better than a 30-60 minute crying ordeal which we've had once or twice. I guess we've never actively sat down and discussed a plan for the night wakings, but your advice has spurred me on. I will be researching those other threads now - thanks. If she never woke at night then I think we would all be happier with the morning cuddle in our bed like you said. Best of both worlds !!!