So we are getting somewhere, but not sure how to play his next game? Any advise gratefully received.

[Volkl]

DS is 2.5 and has slept in our bed for the last year. 2 weeks ago we moved him into a new bed, lots of new things and he loves it. He has a nightlight in his room and also the landing light on - this is his request which seems to help with the situation.

We also put a gate across his door and have explained that he has to stay in until he hears our alarm go off. (and this does mean when he wakes at 6 we set it off, then go and get him and he comes in for a cuddle, usually playing on the bed for 20 mins)

However he is still waking at night, most nights about 6-8 times. We go in, tell him to get back in bed, and wait for the alarm. He does go back to sleep but i'm concerned he's getting into the habit of calling us every few hours.
We have tried leaving him to cry but he literally begins screaming and getting so wound up its unfair, however i dont know if perhaps this would get him to understand that he cant call us as and when he wants?

He wakes between 6 and 6.30 and goes to bed at 8.30, i had stopped letting him sleep in the day but because of his bad night times he's knackered and if we try to keep him up he'll conk out far too late in the afternoon usually in the car on the way home.
I'm in a real catch 22 situation and have no idea what else to try?

Thank you if you have got this far, i hope someone can suggest something?

apologies for the spelling incl: in the title... 'advice'

Does it take you long to settle him atm? Assume you're doing boring dull voice, say the minimum, not too much cuddling & comfort?
Sounds stupid, but have you explained to him what you want?

It actually sounds to me like he's not ready to move into his own room yet. The fact that he's waking so regularly indicates (to me) that he's not settled in there.

My DD1 was exactly the same, we allowed her to get in with us when she woke up (no matter what time it was) and basically the time she came through got later and later until she was coming in to us at about 6am.

Greenmonkies - my apologies I probably didnt make myself clear, he has been in his own bed from 3-4 months old and slept perfectly all night. He was then ill last Sept and i stupidly bought him into bed, from that day on it spiralled, we tried everything but it wouldnt work, hence why new room (smaller, more child friendly, pictures etc etc)

funnypeculiar - As soon as we mention its bed time, he's half way up the stairs, we have a chat/story etc, kiss, main light off, music box on, and he's out. But then it'll start, like tonight he's been up twice already crying at the gate. I went up, said 'come on DS, bed time' put him in bed and he's out.

Has he got all his molars?

Is there noise coming into that room that wasn't in yours that he can hear now? (neighbours, street etc)

Why do you have the gate on his door? Perhaps he doesn't like being shut in?

Ummmmm.....

Perhaps he just realised that it's nicer in with Mummy and Daddy and wants to stay a bit longer?

At the end of the day he won't sleep with you forever, DD1 is now 5 and sleeps in her own bed, unless she's not well or something. DD2 will be moving in with DD1 as soon as we get bunkbeds in her room. It will be a slow and gradual process and I don't expect to take the sidecar cot off our bed for at least 6 months. Perhaps, in the name of rest and sleep it might be better to have him back in your bed (once you have gone to bed) for a while, and then start encouraging him to stay in his bed once he has settled a bit. Would he respond to a sticker chart yet?

You can get kiddie sleep clocks (think jojo maman bebe or blooming marvellous do them) that has a rabbit on with eyes closed, you set the alarm, then rabbit opens his eyes.
Tell him he cant get up when bunny is asleep. Think there is another with rabbit in bed asleep, then changes to rabbit skipping down the path or something.
I havent tried them myself, but they look quite good.

Molars - yes

No noise, very quiet, always been the same

gate on door - done this since the room move because he was wondering into our room during the night and getting into our bed. We've told him he is a big boy now and has to sleep in his big boys bedroom. He gets excited talking about his bed room and sleeping all night until the 'larm' goes off.

He does just want to be with us, but we just cant do it anymore, we are both exhausted and need a good nights sleep. Even though we are getting up through the night to put him back to bed its a million times better than when he is actually in bed with us because he kicks and wriggles all night which then leaves us half awake.

I had tried a sticker chart before but i dont think he really understood, so i thought i'd leave him for a little longer before trying again.

I agree that he's not ready for the separation. Why not move his bed into your room and take it a little more slowly?

but surely that would be a step in the wrong direction he's been in another bedroom for over 2 years and 1 year of that was quite happy sleeping all night on his own.

I'm sure its a bad habit but perhaps not.. i really dont know. sh*t

Volkl I do understand how tired you are, I have two "poo" sleepers, so I know what it's like to be so intensly tired.

The problem is that he is behaving the way evolution/human nature has designed him to. He is only little (2.5 may seem "big" but actually he's still very much a baby really) and little children like/need to be close to thier mum and dad. Do you still have his old cot? We have DD2 (2yrs 3 months) in a bedside cot still. She is with us, can wriggle over for a cuddle or to nurse, but is in her own bit of bed and doesn't disturb us in the night with her thrashing and kicking. (why do all small children thrash so much in thier sleep?) Could you take one side off his old cot amd wedge/tie it against your bed so that he can be in with you without keeping you awake all night?

If I'm honest I don't think it's a bad habit. I have embraced the idea of co-sleeping (DD1 made us have to as she simply wouldn't sleep on her own) and now that we are doing it willingly with DD2 we love it. The snuggles in the morning, hearing her breathe in the night, seeing her little sleeping face and so on. It's lovely. DD1 still joins us in the morning and we all snuggle together.

The truth is if you find a way to make everyone happy, make the sleeping space so that you are not getting kicked and kept awake but so that he is not alone in his room (after all, you are sleeping with DH, why DS be all by himself all night?) I promise you he will move back into his own room before he leaves home!

LOL that was meant to read 'I have two "poor" sleepers' !!!

I agree Volki it would be a step in the wrong direction... Just keep going and be consistent. It sounds like he likes his room, so that's not an issue, he's just not used to settling on his own... Perhaps one of you could sleep in his room for a few nights just to get him used to settling himself in there?

poo sleepers -

I dont think i can even entertain the idea of him coming back in with us.. and if i had my way DH could sleep on his own and i'd sleep with DS - at least there would be more room!

bar duct tape i'm totally out of ideas!

Seriously though, i do miss watching him sleep and him being close etc but waking up with a bloody nose because he's whacked me, or with a head ache and DS with a hand full of my hair is not something i can go back to.

i feel terrible that he gets so upset but i also think that he is using this to get us into the room. In fact i dont know what to think or which way to turn...

Volkl

It's a hard one, I can't shake my conviction that babies/small children are meant to sleep with thier folks until they leave of thier own accord, but if you are getting no sleep and being battered in the night I can also see why you need to change the sleeping arrangements!

Would a bedside cot be a possibility? A slow-weaning approach of putting him in his room at bedtime and allowing him to join you when he wakes, but into the bedside cot, not in the middle of you and DH, might work. It's how DD1 stopped sleeping with us full time.

I do feel for you

I wonder if you could sleep on a blow up bed next to him, and when he stirs reassure him that you are there.
With my two children when they went through a bad patch with sleeping, I put on a classical baby music cd on a loop, and it really helped calm them and send them back to sleep. It is now their trigger to sleep, if they wake in the night I go in and put the cd on!