All those opposed to Controlled Crying...

[Jennyusedtobepink]

So I started the above thread this morning, and whilst researching other similar threads on MN, came across one that called CC 'assault'.

SO for all those parents vehemently opposed to controlled crying, WWYD in my shoes???

So the bedtime routine is working. I agree with the other posters - you need a routine so the same thing happens every time she wakes at night too. Stick to one thing.

We never took ours into our bed, or gave milk once they were over 12mo, only water. We did do the checking thing with gradual decreases. It works in the end - you just have to choose something and stick to it.

It's not easy though.

Agree with ruddynorah - decide for yourself that whatever happens, happens in her room. I would maybe give her a little cup of milk, cuddles, music, other stuff just now - but always in her room. I suspect she is confused, but I do see how you got there, and am sympathetic. Stick to her room, make it nice for her - and for you! You need a team approach to this, so that the one doing the settling is supported by the other parent - dh and I used to bring each other tea/wine, and I knew that if I was settling dd, he was cleaning the kitchen (at bedtime - not 3am!), and vice versa. Your resettling routine needs to be consistent too, but it doesn't have to be too fierce if you don't want it too. We did gradual withdrawal with getting dd to sleep, and it was very gradual indeed! Not too much talking, just same gentle key words like "time to sleep", all gentle and affectionate, so as to give her pleasant associations. I hope things improve for you, but if you don't want to do cc (as I didn't) it will take a while, and you and DH need to accept that, and just look for little signs of progress. Good luck!

Habbibu - thanks for those kind words. Now can you come and stay for a bit and help me?

x-posts - in gradual withdrawal you may need to start a step earlier, and gradually withdraw the attention you're giving her too, iyswim? So that you start by say reading and singing beside her, then a bit less attention, then a bit less, before you even start to move away. DD can always be bribed with stories, mind, so you may have to find your own thing that works for her.

Maveta
did he not work himself into a frenzy? How long did the crying last before he went back to sleep?

Oh, look at me, with all the experience of one child! It will get better, and it will feel like a miracle when it does... (dd currently up to 40 mins burbling so far at this nap time. hmmm).

I can see it's hard if staying in the room with her makes her angrier - if you feel it would be less stressful to come and go then maybe that is better. You know your baby best. I think sticking to her room once she's in bed is the key thing, and I agree on the team approach - we took turns and also brought each other fortifying supplies of tea/chocolate etc(though as dd was only 5 months she wasn't trying to grab any - might be trickier for you!)

Dh and I are having a very tricky time at the moment. I don't think this is helping - I think dd finds it stressful when he's there, and he finds it stressful having her there.

I feel like I'm constantly being pulled between the two of them.

Half the reason I won't draw on dh for support is that I irritate him by reacting so emotionally to it all. He says things like:

This is all your fault anyway
You've made your bed so you'll have to lie in it
I told you we needed to sort this out

I mean he finds it stressful having her in the bed as there is no time for us - remember I'm going to bed with her at about 9pm every night when she wakes up.

Definately agree with the once in her room, she stays in her room, no matter how hard it gets.
Also, if she is falling asleep on her bottle at bedtime, do you think knows how to get back to sleep once awake ?
Also, if the time is right to do some form of CC you will get through it. If the time is not right then you won't, maybe re visit in a few weeks.

She only occasionally falls asleep on her bottle, most of the time she's awake when shenanigans commence.

Ok well we had quite a few factors going on aswell, I think it helped to tackle it really slowly and bit by bit and not even think of when it would all finally fall into place.

It was dh that did it really and it's not really cc, I don't know what it is but it's a pretty wimpy method. He started off going in and sitting in the rocking chair singing away to him (this song that he has always sung to him and soothes ds instantly). Always staying til he went back to sleep. Then after a few days when ds figured out he wasn't going to be picked up dh changed to not singing but just sitting in the chair. Then VERY VERY gradually staying less and less time. Eventually he would just go to the door and touch his head lightly or say 'ssh' and ds would go straight back to sleep. This was when dh completely stopped going into the room at all and ds would cry out and then go straight back to sleep. After a night or two he didn't even cry out.

But the key is that it was a really gradual thing. Try to look at each stage as it's own acheivement and not get too fixed on wanting it all to be fixed straight away iykwim. I know I was always really impatient and the thought that this could take weeks just wore me down. Traditional cc would not doubt be quicker but we couldn't go that route.

I tried a similar approach at bedtime when I had got myself into a bad situation of rocking him to sleep. Just going from being tied to sitting next to him til he fell asleep to staying less and less each time (regardless of if he fell asleep or not) until finally just putting him down, saying night night and leaving.

We never went back in because I know from my own experience that it would make him more hysterical. If he ever did cry more than 5-10 mins after I'd left we'd go to him and just do it again, sit a few mins til he calmed down, then leave. It sometimes took me 45mins. But there was only a couple of nights like that.

But I am far from one to advise. Ds has been sleeping through all of a week! Hope I haven't jinxed it now...

good luck, it is so hard.

Hi SPB!!

Um yes well he did get rather upset but you know, we'd had enough. And we knew we weren't being cruel, that he was fine. Like I said I don't think he ever cried more than 5-10mins because if he did we'd go in. But it's such a difficult one because just like some babies are settled if you go back to them and some get infuriated, maybe it just so happens that something clicked for us and the 'method' such as it was had nothing to do with it.

I can't really say how it happened. There was one night when I just thought 'sod this' and it was about 10mins of full on screaming and dh was about to go to him. And he just stopped. And it was kind of a turning point. And some people on MN will say 'yes, he realised he was all alone and that no one was coming for him' to which I say 'GOOD!'

I hate CC

but it worked with both of mine in just two nights,

If you want her to sleep in her room, she sleeps in her room

If I was you (and I have been!) I would:

1. Talk to her all day about her lovely her room is, have a bedtime rountine all sorted, spend time in her room with her in the day.

1. I would then at bedtime give her milk before you put her in her cot (never in her cot) for 5 nights, and do what you are doing to get her to sleep

1. then start putting her to sleep in her cot, and telling her she now goes to sleep on her own, and goin gout the room, everytime she crys go back in say 'night night time' kiss her and leave the room, again for 5 nights

2. Then for 5 nights don't give her milk in her cot, not before or during the night(we leave a bottle of water with our 16month that he can get in his cot), if she wakes in the night I would go in say night night time (or whatever), no eye contact, leave her

1. On the 6th night I would leave her to cry

and during the night do the same. (I would secretly check that she isn't tangled etc) but if her cry sounds different (pain/ill) go in and check immediately

but don't take her out her room,

sorry if not making sense I have to go out!

It took us one night of crying with DS1 (only for about 25 mins) and two with DS2 (about 15 mins a couple of time each night) goodluck poor you

You're all giving me hope. It's just doing it, isn't it? I can think of so many excuses.

We had a turning point like you Maveta.
Had been trying to settle for numerous nights and then one night DP was out and I just layed on my bed and cried as DD would not settle. DD cried for about 20 mins (Seemed like hours) and then stopped and went to sleep. For us it was a turning point and the settling just got better and better.
Be stong Jenny, this is a good thing for all concerned. It is by no means cruel, bad mothering etc. xx

Doing it IS hard, and it's especially hard for you if your oh isn't supportive. But I think it is worthwhile. When we got sleep sorted my daughter was massively happier because better rested and I went from a borderline postnatally depressed weeping wreck to a happy, energetic mother who loved being at home with her daughter. Which was probably better for her as well as me, really!

Sorrry mavta it wasn't meant to be a criticism at all, I just wonder whether cc would even work on DS as all the CC threads I@ve read say "he cried for 20 minuts and then fell asleep happily"
well the odd times we've tried it T just worked himself up into an irate frenzy and cried for hours (literally - I was timing it). He wasn't settled by us going in either. He then passes out and wakes in the morning snotty and still angry. Just wondered if I just had a child that cc wouldn't work for

StealthPolarBear - that's exactly why I don't feel I could start with much conviction, IYSWIM.

I didn't take it as a criticism at all I know you've always said it was hard with T. tbh it always was with N too, seems like something of a miracle that he's sleeping now, I really don't want to take too much credit for it!!

Jenny, have you had something similar? (have seen some of your threads btw!)
Maveta, you deserve all the credit and then some
(and didn't they use to have a psychic link re sleep? I really hope it's still there but slightly delayed)

Stealth I do believe that CC works for some and not for others. I don't think it would have worked for dd. And I don't think the traditional/ferber method would have worked for ds-I had to adapt it to one that I felt would work.

I also don't think (as has been suggested to me in the past) that I could have saved myself a lot of months of screaming and bouncing/rocking ds to sleep if I'd left him to it from day one. There were times where I had to put ds in his cot for a while because the constant screaming was getting to me and I was afraid I was going to hurt him (he was VERY unhappy for the first 4/5 months) and like your ds he just screamed and screamed and screamed and didn't stop even when picked up until he basically passed out. It was only after having tried various other methods that I got a feeling a version of cc would work for him and that he was ready-I don't think it is an automatic success for everyone, especially if the baby involved is a true non-sleeper.

yes, I agree - so it works when you think your DC is ready, but if you're doing it because you thikn you should or because everyone else is telling you you're making a rod for your own back, well it probably won't. Which would make sense.

Just some sympathy and solidarity from a mum of a 14 month old who thinks sleep is boring. I hope you don't mind advice from someone with no real answers - but I too avoid CC as I'm certain it would send DS into complete hysterics.

We've had more 2am writhing-round-the-bed-kicking-the-parents than 2am time-to-play recently, but it's all shite. Tiredness is such misery.

I'm a huge fan of sitting in a comfy chair in DS's room while he has a mental in the cot. If he's really upset then he gets a cuddle/BF whatever, but always in his room. If he's just having a strop it subsides really quickly. He knows I am there with him but he also knows I won't interact with him. Often he gets put in his cot, lets out a furious yell then checks for a response, gets none, sighs and lies down and goes to sleep! If he really cries I know he's unhappy re teeth or something and BF him some more.

I would avoid going downstairs at all costs. That way lies doom. I also think you need to have a heart-to-heart with your DP, and try really hard to find intimate time together. When DP and I lose intimacy we drift apart and then DS becomes a warzone for us. We're a more united front when we're close and sympathetic towards one another. Thirdly I think to get through this with any sort of sanity intact you need resignation and lots of it. If you know you won't be leaving her room for a few hours then you're less likely to be clock-checking and rushing her. Just sit there and ooze an aura of "I can sit here for as long as it takes" - someone on here once used the phrase "bore them to sleep" - very good advice!

Good luck and if you crack it, please share the secret!