How do I comfort a sucky baby who won't take a dummy and gets terrible wind from too much boob?

[Minkus]

DS2 is 10 weeks old and a real comfort sucker. He is rooting for the boob so much that I have no idea when he is actually hungry or when he just wants a bit of comfort. As a result, he gets too much milk and is sick ALL the time, (I think this is the reason he is sick so much anyway). Because of this too he gets quite a tummy ache (again, I think). I've tried different shaped dummies and although he will suck on one occasionally, it's not something he's particularly keen on so I'm not going to persevere with it. He's chomping on his hands all the time too but although I've encouraged him to suck his thumb I just guess he's not old enough yet to remember how to stick it out each time he wants it.

I'm so sad that I can't comfort my little boy without making him sick- plus nobody is really getting much sleep in our house. If we cosleep he does settle better but of course I'm half asleep too and so he's got even more access to my boobs which means he wakes from about 4am with gripey pains. I think.

SO much of this blimmin baby business is "I think!"

Can anyone help me find a way to work this out? I can't think straight because so much seems to be going on here.

Could he be colicky? He's the right age for it. You could try some of the remedies at the chemist. We found Colief worked but ds was ff by then. My bf pals used Infacol or Gripe Water with varying degrees of success. Also Ashton and Parsons homeopathic powders, though I think they are pointless. Some people think they work and given that I believe in God despite all the evidence to the contrary, I can't really say anything, lol!

Are you sure he doesn't have reflux? This can make them very uncomfortable and sick.

Also my DD hated all dummies apart from Nuk ones, they're not terribly easy to find but they may be worth a try?

It's a really difficult situation. I don't really have an answer for you, sorry, but just wanted to offer some sympathy. My daughter, now thirteen months, was like this when newborn, and it lasted a long time. My little girl wasn't as sick as your little boy, by the sound of it though.

It's probably a nonsensical thing to do really, but when I thought she was just looking for comfort I offered her the breast that I felt was 'emptiest', ie, the one she'd been most recently feeding from, and didn't change her over to the other until I felt she was genuinely hungry. My milk never seemed to turn over that quickly so I feel as though this worked a bit, really.

Sorry not to be more helpful.

I'm not really sure if he's colicky, he's always been windy so we've tried infacol and gripe water with limited success, but it did improve at about 6 weeks so we've not been using it recently. It's just got worse this week and it seems that every time he lies down flat in particular he gets really upset. It's at bedtime that he is the worst, tonight took 2.5 hours to settle him to sleep permanently and last night 3, in the end both times I resorted to giving him some formula because I was so unsure whether he was still hungry and I knew my boobs were "empty" (I know they never empty completely but there certainly wan't ebough there to satisfy him.)

So is he actually gunning for more milk when he's so upset? He's got such a dreadful latch (bottom lip tucked in, can hear lots of air going in/slurping noises) that could it be that just my breastmilk gives him wind?

As for reflux, I'm not sure on that one either! He doesn't violently projectile vomit (it does spurt out a couple of inches, but not across the room like my poor friends' two boys did ) and he's putting on weight fine (following his centile line perfectly).

It's the formula bit that upsets me the most I think, the idea that my body isn't doing what it's supposed to do and give him enough milk when he wants it.

MoChan thanks for that tip I will try it, I guess I've been giving him the full one all the time because I've not been sure if he is hugry or not. Just can't seem to see the wood for the trees.

Minkus have replied on post-natal thread but will post here as well
Alex is a windy baby as well and seems to spend his life decorating our house in sick. Here are a few things we do to help relieve it
a) Use infacol religiously at each feed
b) put him on his side to sleep (like yours he screams the house down on his back)
c) put him on a routine so I know when he maybe hungry and when it could be wind.
d) stop using the boob as a comforter (this one is quite difficult, to soothe A we put him over our shoulder and walk whilst gently rubbing his back)

Personally (and you need someone more experienced with b/f than me to give you advice really) I don't think you need to be topping up with formula if he was gaining weight previously without it, is there anyone you could get latch advice from as well (NCT counsellor?)

My son was diagnosed with reflux at six weeks and sounds similar to yours

He would not sleep on his back and threw up a lot, as well as having loads of wind. He also fed so often, which I was told was because the milk soothed his throat which was being burned by the stomach acid going back up. He put on plenty of weight, so the HVs were totally unconcerned about his throwing up and sleep problems (because, you know, weight is the ONLY issue with babies ). He also wasn't interested in dummies.

We had a hellish couple of months, and he is still a rubbish sleeper now (8 months) but the following helped

He was prescribed ranitidine-obviously only a doctir can tell you if your son does actually have reflux

We put him to sleep on his side

We kept him upright for a bit after each feed (30 mins or so against my shoulder)

he always wore a bib!

please don't think I am trying to diagnose your son, that would be dangerous, it's just I didn't want you to think all refluxers lose weight and projectile vomit.

Can you get someone to help you with your latch? Because there shouldn't be lots of air going in, if he's got a good latch he probably wont fret as much when hes feeding as he'll be more satisfied.

Try not to give formula if you can a this is counter productive, you think you haven't got enough milk so you give him formula which means the breast aren't being stimulated to produce more milk.

My ds was a really sicky baby projectile vomiting fountains of milk in the early days but he was gaining weight. I just had to always have bibs about and change him and myself often. He wasn't in pain so i wasn't too worrierd the hv said something about an underdeveloped gland. He grew out of it at arround 5 months.

Is he quite a noisy feeder? Could you have a fast letdown? If so, you might try feeding one-sided and see if that helps - either feed from one side only at each feed, or for a couple of feeds in a row, then switch.

I think really you need to speak with a BF counseller about this - try ringing one of the helplines.

Can you try and find other methods of comforting? dd was comfort sucking alot and refusing dummy, but I found putting her in the sling worked to settle her. She is better now and at 12 weeks keeps chomming on her fingers instead.
You could try offering the empty boob, and try limting the comfort sucking to say 5 minutes. Try writing down when he has a proper feed, so you know if he is unlikely to be hungry. Try to avoid the formula, breastmilk is much gentler on the tummy.

hi Minkus, will post this on postnatal too..
I second the advice to put him back on same boob - early on, I was putting f on opposite ('full') side every time she wanted milk, and she was getting flooded with foremilk so never being really satisfied and wanting more straight away, and also getting wind as she was choking and spluttering. When I made sure to put her back on same side for a while, so she got the richer hindmilk, she settled down.
If she has a 'proper' feed then I'll put her back on that side for up to an hour and a half or so after, if she wants more. IYSWIM.
If he is putting on weight fine, you really don't need to give formula.
HTH and makes sense!

Again, I'm no expert, but it really sounds like reflux to me (my LO suffers too). It doesn't have to be projectile to be reflux and weight gain does not always suffer if he constantly feeds to make up for the loss (mine certainly does and is 75th percentile). Does your LO hiccup a lot? I would say this was the clincher if yes.

There is more info here and I know there used to be a reflux website I used previously, but I can't find it at the moment.

You can try propping up one end of the cot - use blocks or a wedge, there are lots of products around. We found this helped.

Also, from what I can work out, some BFd babies take a while to get the whole dummy thing. I would say keep persevering (SP?) if you think it will help

I know how you feel about your supply, I thought the same with my LO. But if your LO is gaining weight fine then you obviously ARE providing enough. You are so better of BFing, just think of all the extra milk you would be making/bottles sterlising with the sickness!!

Like Libra says, use infacol or something for the wind - your LO will eventually learn how to burp better. We found feeding position is important, keeping their backs straight, and that a sitting burping position with DS on our laps after feeding was the best way to burp (with a big cloth under his chin ready!). You might find lying him on his front helps to bring up any trapped wind too.

We also put a cushion on the changing table for his shoulders/head to try and reduce sickness during changes, and of course change him before you feed him.

Finally, found sitting DS up at every opportunity helped, in bouncer, on lap - I eventually perfected dressing my baby sitting up!

Sorry it's such a long post!

Good luck.

also you could try a sling during the day to keep him upright after feeds (and leaves your hands free)

friends with a refluxy baby swear by the ambi-nest hammock as a way of calming down and getting them to sleep

There is an American paediatrician called Harvey Karp who has a method for soothing 'colicky' babies in the first 3 months - he calls it the 'cuddle cure'. His book is called Baby Bliss and it might be worth giving it a go. It involves swaddling, swinging, holding them on side or stomach, shushing and sucking. DH tells me you can see him demonstrating on Youtube, but I've seen him doing his thing on TV and it was absolutely amazing. May be worth a look?

OOoh - did not mean lie him on his front to sleep - just when playing if you think he has wind .

Minkus -apart from the sickness, Rory is just the same - I am constantly unsure whether he has had enough or not, as he seems to be wanting to feed all the time. He is really windy - stomach rumblings all the time and awake and griping from about 3am onwards - I know feeding every hour isn't a good idea, but at that time in the morning it always seems the easiest way to calm him - also I don't want him waking everyone else - the other DC's need to go to school and DH is recovering from an operation and needs to sleep. Some good advice on here - I will try same sided feeding if it has been less than 2 hours since the last feed I think, and see what happens.

Sometimes I think it would be easier to give up bf as at least I will know that he has had enough. He is putting weight on, but then he should be - I feed him all the time! It really is exhausting isn't it? Have tried infacol and gripe water to no avail.

Good luck!

Minkus, my DD was the same, getting really sick basically because I was overfeeding her because she always wanted to suck. It has completely sorted itself out now that I have her on a 3 hour feeding routine and give her a dummy if she still seems hungry between feeds. If your DS wont take a dummy, try giving him your (clean, nail trimmed) little finger upside down in his mouth (so the pad of your finger is on the roof of his mouth) instead of giving him your boob. That worked for DD before I got her onto the dummy. I found that a cherry-shaped dummy pointed to the roof of her mouth worked the best. Worth perservering to try to get your DS to take one if he is really sucky - it has been a godsend for us!
HTH

wow thanks everone for such a lot of sensible advice- lots of food for thought (no pun intended) so dh and I are going to have a good think about this all!

Amazingly we had a much better night last night, I let him suck for as long as he liked and this only turned out to be about 20 mins each feed (1.30, 4 and finally 7am). I think I've got quite a fast let down as whenever I express most of the milk is in the bottle after about 7 or 8 minutes) He was still sick but so much easier to settle.

Re: the formula thing, logically I know that the more often I put him to the boob the better my supply will be, but when he'd been screaming for 3 hours my rational though just flew out of the window! DS1 was bf for 18 months and I sooo want to be able to do the same for ds2, I'd feel like I was letting him down otherwise because I want to give him the same as ds1 (part of not wanting to treat one differently to the other- nothing to do with the formula vs bf thing!)

Off to get ds1 from nursery now, me in change of clothes no.3 and ds2 on change no 4

LeonieD if it's any consolation, I', th OP and ds is now nearly 16 weeks. Things much much better on the wind front, think he's learned how to bring some of it up by himself. Still sicky but not as painfully so for him. He's still only happy if held though Your dd sounds very much like him, esp the waking between 3-5. Hang in there, it will get better I promise. (Just other stuff to contend with now. Babies, who'd have em eh? )

LeonieD your dd sounds much like mine-she is on reflux meds which seem to have helped although she's still sick a lot and happiest upright. (Naps in sling during day and Amby/our bed at night)
Colief also seems to have helped the wind.
Have you tried feeding from the same side if she wants a feed less than 2 hrs after the last one? Only do this if she's gaining weight OK though.
I cosleeep to get over the whole 3-5 am horror which is much better although had to put extra sheets on bed because of sickiness.
On the positive side she will sit in bouncy chair for 15-20 mins after a feed awake quite happily and we are getting lots of smiles and chuckles which makes the bad bits so much more bearable