Can a night owl learn to be an early riser? I'm desperate!

[Crossfitgirl]

I've always been a bit of a night owl, but my sleep pattern is breaking me and I need some advice.
I'm late 30s, mum of 2 young kids and often solo parent through the workout week, I work 4 days in a highly stressful NHS role.

I'm absolutely exhausted. But yet I cannot / will not go to bed early. As much as this seems like an easy fix for lots of people, this feels like it's not a choice. By the time I've got the kids to bed and had my tea and done the jobs, its late and I end up scrolling, or playing games on my phone, reading MN, whatever it is. And I can stay up until the early hours. I KNOW I should go to sleep but I can't switch off - I have tried bedtime mode, deleting apps, all the advice and I feel ridiculous that a stupid thing like going to bed at a reasonable time feels so impossible for me.

Every morning I feel so tired and hate myself for staying up late, vow to get an early night and the same thing happens. I'm cranky with the kids, I'm tired and always rushing in the morning and I hate it. Kids always wake me about 6.30. I feel miles better when I get one morning to lie in at the weekend.

Has anyone else had any luck with changing their routine and sticking to it for a better night's sleep?
I want to be in bed asleep by 10pm and up at 6 with no problem. Currently I think I'm averaging about 6 hours sleep and I need to change.
I have ADHD which I think is playing a part, I'm quite stressed and don't get much me time.

Please fellow MNers give me your advice and please don't judge me, I need a way to be able to stick to bedtimes and I feel ridiculous enough as it is posting this.

Work backwards. So if you want to be in bed for 10, and need 2 hours to yourself to wind down, then you need to be finished doing chores and cleaning up by 8. So work out how you can get everything done by then. Probably, it either means doing it while the DC are still up, which is a possibility, get involved too. Or get the DC in bed for 7 or earlier, and do your chores after that.
If they have a long, drawn out bedtime, then you'll need to start the whole process much earlier.

There is a device that can very effectively lock you out of the screen time problem before bed, allowing you to wind down in a way that prepares you for sleep rather than resisting and delaying it. It’s a physical device so you can’t just override it in an app, it’s called brick and I think the website is getbrick dot com. You can also try replacing the scrolling with listening to music or having a stretch, a shower, an audiobook or reading a kindle with warm light.

I am a bit like this, I almost distract myself from being tired in the evening so then I stay up later. It’s so easy to just scroll because there’s no end, unlike with a TV show or movie. I have a blocking app for sites and apps but turning my phone on airplane mode has helped more. I feel like I almost have to justify that I have a good reason for connecting to the internet (which I usually don’t). And I’ve also found doing something creative for an hour or so while watching something slow is helpful. The creative thing makes me feel like I’ve achieved something and the slow show is relaxing, so I feel like I can “give in” to the tiredness. Otherwise in that hour I’d think “oh I’ll just scroll Facebook or MN to switch off” but it doesn’t switch me off. If I do scroll it’s now usually on Pinterest which is mainly static pictures and mine shows lots of nature photos and empowering quotes, so it feels slow and positive. I’ve always been a night owl but currently getting up around 6am and it’s weird but also great

Its actually a thing. It’s called’revenge bedtime procrastination’. Look it up and work on strategies specifically for that

Getting into bed and reading a book works for me. It doesn't need to be a physical book, it can be on a kindle, but it's more soothing to my brain than scrolling, I guess something to do with fewer dopamine hits or whatever.

Staying up late is a recognised ADHD thing, it’s called revenge scrolling or something. It’s really hard to break.
I’d suggest:
Use a friend to keep you accountable, if it’s not embarrassing - get someone to text you to remind you to go to bed NOW
Set an alarm and use it like a wake up alarm - alarm’s gone off I have to go to bed
Arrange something for super early in the morning, like a workout, that you can’t get out of, and the fear of being knackered for that will make you go to bed early the night before.

Failing that, maybe treat it like jet lag and just try to pull it back by 15 mins a day and be consistent. Sooner or later your body clock will adjust but consistency is key.

Tell yourself it isn’t impossible, it’s just a bad habit you have fallen into, and one that you can easily break.

You need to consistently go to bed earlier, by 9:30 at the latest to allow yourself time to faff about and nod off.

No alcohol and no caffeine past 4pm
Good luck!

At 68 now, I have never found a way to get myself out of my night owlishness, and this was way before the internet. I just like the peace of the night, no phones, and distractions, and I felt so tired for years. Now I can hoot all night and get up when I want. Some people are just made that way. Sorry!

Buy an analogue alarm clock and charge the phone downstairs? Phones are addictive. It'll take a couple of weeks to break the habit. What did you find engaging pre phone? Do some of that.

Have you tried melatonin? My daughter has ADHD and needs it to fall asleep (unless she goes to bed very late like you). It does seem to be a common ADHD difficulty. I saw some research on it by Addiss.

I think it is impossible and people saying that it’s a bad habit clearly aren’t night owls.

It irritates me how the world is set up for larks and night owls are made to feel lazy or unproductive. I don’t think there’s anything we can do about it except struggle through.

My work hours were 7am-3pm for years. Yes. I learned how to get out of bed at 5.30am and leave at 6am. And go to bed in due time.

I am a night owl. But not a lot of choice those years with young children. I had to work and bring money home - if not I wouldn't have done it. And I didn't enjoy it at all.

I changed but the only thing that did it was having to get up super early for training (I was doing running/ triathlon events and just couldn’t mess about with sleep). It changed a lifelong habit and shifted my body clock by about 2 hours (to be fair I was never a 2am person, more like happily up til 11:30 or midnight, but when you have to get up at 5 or 6 that’s late). It was hard but on the other side now I can’t go back and get tired after 9:30.
It might also have been declining energy reserves through peri and menopause. That just keep going feeling wasn’t there as much.

Yep I’ve always been like this. It has nothing to do with tech or just resetting and going to bed earlier. My guess is you can ditch the tech and improve it a bit but if it isn’t tech it will be something else occupying you until the early hours of the morning. If your internal clock/genetics has you as a night owl there isn’t much you can do about that. You can make things easier but you are never going to be the sort of early bird that gets out of bed early a with a spring in their step.

I end up scrolling, or playing games on my phone, reading MN, whatever it is.

This is the problem. You need to not do this. When you're finished with your chores, go and have a shower and get ready for bed. Don't sit down with your phone or laptop or whatever, you are just wasting valuable sleep time by doom scrolling, which is deadly, because time passes and you don't even notice it. If you need to wind down, read a book in bed or listen to 'Book at Bedtime' on R4 or an audio book. You're going to bed too late because you lack self-discipline. You need to start thinking about what you're doing, plan your evening so you know what time you're going upstairs, and not mindlessly scrolling on your phone for hours.

I managed it. Not every night, but most and the nights I don't do it is because of something stopping me rather than me not doing it on purpose if that makes sense.

It took time. I have FOMO on a night. But I started to try to shift my brain into viewing 22:00 as late. Previously I'd have thought of it as very early. I'd have a glass of wine at 19:00, read something on my phone, avoid anything stimulating. It took a while to get used to. I also started going to the gym on a morning (which I realise is not always possible for everyone!) and once in that habit, it became very important to be in bed early as I'd get annoyed if I missed a session. Maybe you could invent something similar that you 'have' to do even if it is something you already do. I have ADHD too, our brains work differently. But it was the changing the way I looked at things that worked for me.

What’s your routine now? Afternoon all the way to bedtime?

My first suggesTion would be to adjust it (bring it earlier, let some things slide, leave them until the morning/next afternoon) so you can be in bed a lot earlier when you start your wind down scrolling. I found reading books a lot better at quieting my brain AND making me sleepy rather than watching stuff or being on things like MN. Some books work A LOT better than others.

I am a night owl, and the only thing that I find that helps is melatonin. It’s not available over-the-counter here, but if you are on holiday in Europe, you can generally just buy it in chemists

I managed it, I have been in my new body clock routine for about 18 months now. But it did take me years of trying to get there. I'm such a deep sleeper and was sleeping through my alarms, constantly knackered, and had a horrendous time getting up each day. I need 8-9 hours sleep to function well, and now I go to bed around 9/930, and wake up naturally before my alarms. It's made for a much better life.

Things that helped me - there's a book called the four pillars by Rangan Chatterjee - one of the pillar sections is about sleep. I started with that and follow it religiously.

I have a brick and keep it on my fridge, I brick my phone at night. I keep a pen and paper next to my bed to jot down anything that needs urgently googling that I suddenly remember while falling asleep.

It's tough but I really hope you manage to crack it 🙏

honestly, just.. do it. write a schedule, and stick to it

x hour, finish cleaning the house/ kitchen, swith off lights.
x hour, brush teeth
xx hour in bed NO PHONE no screen
Give yourself 30mn to read a book and switch off

and make sure everything is done before you have to start your own evening routine.

yes and no
You might naturally be a night owl, but when you HAVE to get up early, it's up to you to make an effort to get enough sleep.

You make efforts to be up on time, you can make the same efforts to go to bed

I’ve never managed it. I reckon I need 6.5 hours most nights and can’t work more than 4 days per week so I can have a sort of lie in on a couple of the others. Fortunately I have a really short commute so can just about manage.

So I diiiiddddd, but it’s gone again! I started three nights a week putting down the phone at 8, not drinking tea, reading a book, doing minimal tidy or organising for the morning so wasn’t stressed running/ frazzled, but enough that I wasn’t in a bad place (so I had my kids and my clothes ready to go and their shoes by the door and my keys out but very little cleaning or washing etc done). Following morning was weirdly easier probably because of the sleep! Also I made sure to step out of the house to meet the morning (god I hate myself 😂) before I got the kids up.

It takes so much willpower though, but a lot easier after a few weeks (but I still fell of the wagon thanks to mn actually 😂😂😂)

Adjusting by two hours is a lot at once. Could you start with adjusting half an hour, stick to it like glue for two months, then see if you want to adjust another half hour?

I've always been a night owl, ever since I was a small child, but last autumn I got a job which starts at 5:30 in the morning so I had no choice but to change my sleep patterns. Once I started getting up at half 4 every morning I was ready to go to bed nice and early, and my insomnia is much improved now. So I suggest you start forcing yourself up early every day and do something really active first thing to wake you up properly.

You can tell who's got ADHD on this thread and who's not got a clue. Telling you to just do it is absolutely hopeless.

Many people with ADHD have a longer than normal body clock, to add to all the psychological stuff. This means it's a lot easier for you to shift into waking later than going to bed earlier. I've done it, but it's HARD, and I spend a lot of days very tired.

Are you on ADHD meds? You can get melatonin here - you can order it online. 2mg a night taken fairly early (about 7) will make you sleepy at the time you need to go to bed. Consider Nytol or Phenergan (used to be Sominex) too - a small dose could help to kick your body clock into shifting backwards. And get lots of daylight in the mornings - walk if at all possible.

It's not your fault, it's not a failure of character, it's just one of those fun things that ADHD drops into your lap without warning.