Has anyone else been in this dark place and survived to tell the tale?

[ali23]

Basically, I'm on my knees with lack of sleep. DD is approaching 14 months, is running around, eats well and is still BF but doesn't sleep. She has just cut a rather large back tooth and I suspect there are at least two others just about to pop through. But last night was awful. I just need to know that others have been in this position and got there in the end. It feels like I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel this morning. I was awake with DD from 1.30am until 5am and then had to get up for work an hour later. I drove to work with fat, salty tears of exhaustion rolling down my cheeks. Somebody tell me that it gets better, that she will sleep. I just hope I don't end up in the loony bin before then. . Unless they've got some comfy beds.

CC doesn't work for some kids - my DS worked out how to vomit on demand and would just do this (repeatedly) whenever we tried CC. In the end doctor advised us to combine CC with a prescribed sedative at same time - that way the CC went on for less than half an hour before he fell asleep, and we only had to repeat it for a few nights and then it worked (to a point - he is still up at 5 every day). It made life much easier because he became less exhausted too.

Saying that, CC never worked for DD at all.

I work as well and understand the exhaustion. Although I would of course never ever recommend buying stuff off the internet I have, ahem, a friend who found that modafinil was a lifesaver in terms of keeping going through the worst of it.

Squiffy, can you take it when bf? Or would it keep DD awake?

sorry - missed this, Ali

It doesn't stop you from sleeping when you want to sleep. But like everything it seems, I am 100% convinced it won't have been tested, and therefore will not be recommended if still bf..... best google to find out for sure...

Hiya all.. Have you seen the thread here about sleep counsellors?

Handing the problem over to an experienced professional really helped us when we were in a similar boat.

I know its not for everyone (it costs a couple of hundred pounds usually), but if you think it might help there are quite a few recommendations on there.

Haven't read all the posts, but our DD didn't sleep more than an hour at a time for 17 months, it nearly drove me insane! We tried everything, including a sleep counsellor, nothing worked until we went to see a cranial osteopath. DD slept through that same night after first appt with her!! After that it slowly improved, and by about 2 she was sleeping 7 till 7. Also helped when I stopped breastfeeding as last thing before sleep, and cut down on milk during night gradually until she wasn't having any feeds in the night.

Hi ali23, what was your dd doing from 1:30 am to 5 am? Awake but calm, awake but crying? Drifting in and out of sleep? What were you/dp (if you have one) doing in that time?

OK - I was going to try CC tonight but now I am waivering again after reading this thread. DD didn't go to sleep til after half nine last night, after going upstairs at 7.45. She woke up less than an hour later.

One thing I am trying to cling on to, and again, no judgement, is surely this is not good for them. They need sleep and a healthy routine. Or is everything I am clinging to in an attempt to make myself feel better about trying to sort this problem out wrong? Am I doing the wrong thing? Again?

ali23, mine also turned into a dream sleeper around 17 months. After I weaned her from bf-ing during a nursing strike - so no tears from her.

Prior to that, co-sleeping was my survival strategy.

Having had two poor sleepers (and still in the throes of one who is teething 6 teeth at 21 months), my theory is that for some babies:

(1) Their minds race and are difficult to change gears, hence troubles with settling and fighting bedtime despite being overtired and hysterical.

(2) They are light sleepers, hence the frequent wakings.

(3) Their first instinct when they are disturbed is to spring themselves awake (rather than just go back down). My dcs are very cuddly and I put this down to a form of separation anxiety.

(1) is a function of temperament. My dh is still like this and cannot just put head on pillow even if very tired. He needs to wind down first. Although they can learn winding down strategies over time. My dd 4.9 still needs a lot of help to wind down. She falls asleep on our lap on the sofa after dinner and we carry her up.

(2) - the good news is that they will grow out of this to a certain extent. For reasons of survival, babies have short and light sleep cycles. This is because in the open their survival absolutely depends on not being separated from their mothers and waking for night feeds. As they mature, could take a year or more for crap sleepers, their sleep cycles lengthen with longer periods of deep sleep (bliss) and it takes them a shorter time to go from light to deep sleep.

(3) At some point, the baby will realise that it is not in his interest to wake himself up. And to go down again. For some babies (mine and yours), it does not happen naturally. Once they realise this, I think this is the magic switch that makes them finally sleep through, assuming (2) has been achieved. With my dd, it took weaning from bf-ing.

Not sure with ds though. I remember the turning point was when I felt that suddenly, dd's sleep was more robust ie she did not wake when I carried her from one place to another. She did not wake if I touched her.

And also don't forget, it is always darkest before the light ...

Pinkjenny, is your dd tired and irritable during the day? For mine, even if they had a rough night, they will still full of beans in the day. And might take longer naps to catch up.

No help to their mothers of course.

blueshoes - yes, she is extremely tired and irritable. She falls asleep a couple of hours after she wakes up because she is still so tired.

How old is your dd, pinkjenny?

13mo

I think at 13 months babies still need a morning sleep. My ds would fall asleep around 2 hours after he woke. But he is generally happy before then (provided I am entertaining him) and once he starts to get irritable, I put him in a buggy to wheel to sleep.

Is your dd getting regular naps during the day? And waking refreshed? I find that because my dcs could not be trusted to wind down when tired or self-soothe, I had to actively manage their nap time ie take them out in buggy, keep rocking them to ensure they don't wake too early. I learnt this the hard way. I lost so much weight during my maternity leave because I just never sat down. Only if a baby is well-rested during the day, would you have a decent chance of a good nights' sleep from them.

I am not completely against CC provided it works pretty quickly (within 3 nights) and there are few relapses. If so, your dd is ready to move to the next stage and just needed a push.

I have never tried CC in any organised way, so cannot speak from personal experience.

Blueshoes - surely it is impossible to say how long CC will take to work, and surely it is cruel to start it and then revert back?

I am starting to feel that it is also not acceptable for my daughter to go to sleep after 9pm. I'm just trying to find a solution that is best for my family. Dh and I never spend any time together, and dd is knackered.

yes, true. You have to start and then decide whether to persevere or leave it for another time. Hence, I never went down that route.

For earlier bedtime in a 13 monther, it is a question of managing her day time naps (not too long) and to cut out the late afternoon one. And not allow her to lie in too much.

When it is bedtime ie 7:30 am or whenever you deem appropriate, and she is tired, you use the surefire method to get her down.

I find that summertime is tricky. For some reason, not only do my dcs go to bed later because it is light (yes, my dd who has school the next day will hold out till 9pm), but also seem to need less sleep. Also, my dcs were never the sort to go to sleep at 6 and wake at 6. Unheard of. At best, I could get them to sleep at 7:30. But that was during the winter.

Blueshoes - there is a 'surefire method'? Did I miss something?

I see the problem. Various issues: getting to sleep, then staying asleep, or sleeping alone. If the first is a problem, I meant 'surefire' only to the extent that there is some way that is more likely to settle your dd than not: could be rocking, walking in a sling, bf-ing/feeding, wheeling in a buggy, white noise, driving.

Do any one or combination of those methods work more reliably than others?

She will generally fall asleep quite easily in the car if she is tired, but sometimes does cry a little bit. She won't be rocked any more, she just fights against it, and the pram is a no-no as she hates it.

She is coming to bed with me at 8pm (I know, its the only way I can get her to sleep), and then throwing herself about until she just crashes out, from sheer exhaustion, which doesn't exactly aid restful sleep!

That works too! My ds does that throwing himself around thing when he wakes up and won't go back to sleep. He also cries loudly in my ear - we co-sleep. If he tries to hit me, I pick him up and put him in the cot next to the bed - he cries of course but after 10 minutes, sometimes longer, will settle on my chest.

Ds is no.2 crap sleeper, so I am hardened.

My deal with him is I am happy to sleep with him and cuddle him when he wakes, even nurse a little. But I won't get up or allow myself to be the victim of violence. He will protest (because he is of the strongwilled tantrummy nature if thwarted but once it blows over he comes back for cuddles).

I think of it as setting limits, rather than CC. Because I never leave him. It means I get some measure of sleep, or shall I say, rest. And he gets his beloved mummy there all night, which is the crux of his need.

I don't know if that will work for you or your dd. But it saves my sanity. I don't think at 13 mths babies are necessarily crying or thrashing around from fear at night. If you are already trying everything, there isn't much else to do, except not try to get too worked up by it.

try not

Thanks for the advice. I just can't continue going to bed at 8pm! Its not a proposition.

pinkjenny, I think work on it one step at a time. If you think co-sleeping is fine and it is just the late bedtime you need to crack now, then take your dd to bed at an earlier time (with all the thrashing that entails) and see if you can sneak off for adult time. To ensure dd is tired, don't let her have a late afternoon nap or overlong sleeps during the day.

Good luck.

blueshoes you have some good advice. I especially like it's always darkest before the light. That will be my comforter at 4am when I am exhausted.

thank you, wellie. Can you tell I spent a lot of time thinking about this at 4 am

God, it's so difficult, isn't it?
For the last three nights we have had a torrid time with DD waking every 1.5 hours and taking forever to get back to sleep. I am so tired all the time .
It's tough to know what to do. I think a sleep counsellor might be the answer but they don't come cheap. I just feel at the end of my rope now and it's a comfort to know I'm not alone, at least.