2.5-year-old waking for hours overnight, refusing naps, tried everything

[Glowz]

DD is 2.5 and has slept through 3 times since birth. I'm at the end of my tether, have exhausted all methods and want to avoid medication so wondered if I've missed something to try. Also have a 5yo who slept through from 6 weeks!

She doesn't nap, we try sometimes on days where the night has been particularly hard but she won't go. Tried in car, in bed, on walks in a pram, she refuses to nap. She's fully toilet trained day & night.

Wind down starts 6/6:15, either TV off or we play something like a Julia Donaldson short film whilst we tidy up from tea. Bath is 6:45 and she's in bed for 7 with a story and some milk. She goes to sleep absolutely fine and will stay asleep for a while.

She usually wakes up somewhere between 12-2, some nights she comes into our bed and gets back to sleep after around half an hour (any adult will know though that I can't get back to sleep straight away, husband has no issues going back to sleep). Majority of the time though she wakes up crying, she demands more milk or to go downstairs and watch TV. It's like she thinks it's morning. The past 2 weeks she's been awful, being awake for 3/4 hours in the night. Nothing calms her, she just screams. We have a tonies box that we put audio books on for her as I don't want screens on. Sometimes we relent and after hours of trying out a Julia Donaldson on for her on the TV and she will then sleep but this can't be sustainable for her?

We've tried:
Altering bedtimes to early and later, changing 10 minutes each night
No milk before bed
Sleep consultants X2 (£600 down the drain)
Sleeping in her bed all night
Having her in our bed all night
Had her outside/walking for the majority of the day

She had chickenpox recently and we were advised to give piriton and we got 2 nights of full sleep out of her and in the day you could tell in her the next day.

She's very full on, constantly talking/doing, never stops. She gets very whiny and demanding and we are firm but fair. These bits don't bother me as it's standard second child behaviour and her tantrums are no where near as bad as some of my friends children.

I'm absolutely exhausted to the point I feel ill, it's affecting my work, our marriage, I feel depressed and like I'm being tortured with the lack of sleep.

We don't have the 'village' to help. Is there anything else I can try

I'm sorry, this sounds really difficult. My 3 year old wakes a lot but luckily a lot easier to get back down. We have started giving him a peanut butter sandwich at night and having a snack ready for when he wakes as he is normally hungry. Maybe a low sugar snack before bed? Porridge, banana, yoghurt. Something like that?

Do one thing and stick to it. She knows you will relent eventually. What I did as I was exhausted was let him into my room and I went to bed ignored everything. He eventually climbed up on the foot of my bed and slept. Within 5 days of darkness no interaction and boredom he slept all night in his bed. The room needs to be pitch black so child can't see to pull apart your drawers etc. it's hard but worth it

I'm absolutely exhausted to the point I feel ill, it's affecting my work, our marriage, I feel depressed and like I'm being tortured with the lack of sleep.

And you don't want to try medication because...?

Seems to me that trying some melatonin would be the obvious first choice. Given that you've tried everything else and medicating her overnight (Piriton) has proven successful. How long will you allow you and your DC to suffer the serious consequences of sleep deprivation before trying medication?

There is an amazing page on Facebook called The Beyond Sleep Training Project. If you put your routine in there, you'll have some really good advice. I do think you're aiming for too early a bedtime.
My little boy is 2.2 years - not a great sleeper, still naps most days. If he's had a nap he won't go to sleep until 9- 9:30. On a no nap day we try and push it until 7:30-8, otherwise if he went to bed any earlier he would wake up after a couple of hours or be up for the day at 4.

Melatonin only helps with getting to sleep not staying asleep. What’s the earliest you’ve done bedtime? Our son was the same at that age and sleep consultant advised us he was overtired. The body releases cortisol if you can’t sleep when you need to so that you stay awake. That stays in the body up to 12 hours and causes frequent wakings and or early wake ups. We ended up with him in bed for 6pm and asleep by 6.15 and that resolved it for us. Earliest he went when I could see his sleep cues was 5pm and I was convinced it would be a nap but he slept until 7.30am. She said if you see them rubbing their eyes or yawning that was beyond the optimal sleep time. It worked for us then.

Supper before bed, something like a couple of Weetabix and milk just before settling down. Little ones need 12 hours of sleep so 7pm is a perfectly fine bedtime. Good luck.

I had stories playing on an iPod all night. Her language skills were bloody amazing. She just wasn’t allowed to wake anyone up. She’d come into my bed for a bit and then go back to her own.

I’d say you DH needs to deal with it and you need to sleep elsewhere with earplugs. Until you are less damaged by the sleep deprivation.

she wasn’t allowed to get up for the day until the sleep clock said she could and then she could go and get her breakfast and watch tv but only on weekends.

The bad news is she was 9 before I didn’t wake up. By which time I was sleeping with earplugs every night.

Have you tried changing bedtime to something like 9.30 - I ha e a night owl baby despite me and partner being early birds.he likes to wake up about 7m30 am. I am quite relaxed about him coming into my bed though as I dont have the energy to get up at night.

I think 7pm bedtime is too early for most kids. I’d try 7.30or 8, and you need to stick for it for a few weeks. And wake her by the same time regardless of what her night has been like. And obviously ask much activity as possible. Just absolutely wear her out.

I am so sorry. It is exhausting! My daughter slept her first night aged four. My boys no issues. I don’t think she sleeps much now she is a grown up but thankfully I don’t need to worry! I hope someone comes up with useful ideas for you!

Split nights are a sign of low sleep pressure. What time do they wake and do they have a consistent wake time? Pushing back bedtime could help tire they out - but any routine changes need to be implemented consistently for 2+ weeks to see a real difference.

Im just sending some empathy and understanding your way. No real advice as such, as I can see you have tried everything humanly possible! I've had a similar experience with my son...he is my whole world and more, but my god until recently (age 3 and a half) he did not sleep a full night 🤣. He is just starting to sleep through. He has a low sleep need, and goes to bed at 8pm and is up about 5am/5.30am. Sometimes he still gets up middle of the night, but its not as bad as it was. I had to take car naps on my lunch break I was so exhausted. My weight increased as I just craved sugar all the time and generally felt crap. Sleep deprivation is awful.

What you have described sounds so similar to us. I was at the point of considering Drs and discussing sleep medication, when all of a sudden, DS just started to sleep without waking up multiple times a night.

I dont know if this will make you feel better or not, but other parents I have spoken to with similar sleep problems have also said that between ages 3 and 4, their child just seemed to start to sleep better. Whether its down to age and stage of development, I dont know. But from speaking with others, this is what the general pattern seems to be!

Your in the thick of it though and I really feel for you! Especially as you were probably lulled in to a false sense of security with your first child being such a good sleeper! I hope things improve soon.

Right this might sound bonkers but I think you should watch Graham who hosts dogs behaving really badly.

most solutions involve praising good behaviour and being calm during bad behaviour. Do you praise her for these little things that she does well like getting dried, like settling into bed, listening to you?

do you inadvertently wind up the energy she has by raising your energy when she gets out of bed? So she gets more attention when she is up at night?

Sleep needs for this age range from 11 to 14hrs total including naps or no naps. It really varies so recommending 12hrs as blanket isn't always going to work.

What time do they get up?

Could you try feeding her a big-ish supper like a bowl of porridge before bed (if she’s waking up asking for milk - hungry? Thirsty?). Have you looked at her diet - does she have a lot of sugar? Some stuff you really wouldn’t expect to be sugary is actually super full of it eg Organix apple bars or Ella’s Kitchen yoghurt pouches. For context anything below 5g is probably fine before bed but I wouldn’t give more than that. Could you try no tv at all on an evening as sounds like she might be watching a fair bit sometimes and this could definitely disrupt sleep, even low stimulation shows like Julia Donaldson?
Sorry you’re going through this. It really is extremely difficult and it sounds like you’re doing everything you can. This too will pass. Sending best wishes

That bed time is far too early imho, I have a 2 year old and don't put him down any earlier than 8pm, wind down starts at 7pm. Very occasionally he'll ask to go to down earlier.

Have you seen a doctor for any issues such as glue ear? There might be something bothering your DC and preventing their sleep. It's really hard when they can't tell you what's up, so unfortunately it's a process of elimination.

Could just be a "bad" sleeper or there could be something actually wrong.

It sounds like she is a lower sleep needs child. I would try a later (much later) bedtime. My son is also low sleep needs (He has disabilities though so maybe a bit different). We don't start the bedtime routine till 8pm (aim to have him asleep by 9). He is older, 6, but this has been his routine since he dropped naps.

2.5 is a funny age. My older 2 children also went through some odd phases with sleep around this age. This will pass...I also can't stress the importance of outdoors time in the day, and if she wakes up at night make everything very boring - don't raise your voice/go high energy - just lie with her or do whatever you usually do to get her back to sleep.

I know you get low sleep needs but this sounds extreme if she’s not napping and still up for 4 hours overnight. Has she seen a doctor to rule out a medical cause? Does she snore or mouth breathe? Just thinking of things like enlarged tonsils which can cause sleep apnea and result in night wakes. Or if she has ear pain or something.

What time does she wake up in the morning?

2.5 it’s normal to drop naps. 6:15pm is far too early a bedtime - I personally would say 8! However earlier poster is right you have tried anything, you might just chose what works for your family and otherwise give up. My 2nd only started sleeping through as they approached 3. Definitely zero tv or anything to suggest it’s morning. Only other thing I can think of is a grow clock?

Have you ruled out medical issues first and foremost? Long night wakes or split nights suggest sleep pressure is too low. We need sufficient sleep pressure to both fall asleep and stay asleep. At this age, sleep needs range between 10 and 13 hours over a 24 hour period. Track how much time she is actually sleeping for over 7 days and take an average. 8-9 hours is on the lower end of the range, but still ok, anything less would be a red flag and I would suggest you would then need to investigate/rule out any medical issues. Once you have calculated average sleep needs over a week or so, determine what your desired wake up time is. Anything after 6am is not deemed to be a night wake, and some little ones will just generally be earlier risers. If for example, average sleep calculates to be 10 hour, you want an 8pm bedtime for a 6am wake up. Having a consistent morning wake up time even after a rough night is important for setting circadian rhythm. I’m talking within a 15 min window each day. You ideally also need to change how you respond to night wakes - if your LO knows they will get milk or TV time, they could partly be habitual. It’s also normal to have dropped naps by 2.5 years, even if not common.

Hi, my 4 year old has always been a nightmare with sleep - we are permanently exhausted - I suspect there’s some adhd at play there as a few people in my family have it. When she is at her worst it is usually when there is a change in environment (holidays/visitors etc) or if she is coming down with something/conjested etc… She has also done the waking up in the middle of the night thing when she’s caught pinworms (rife in her nursery) - might be worth double checking as they cause late night waking!

Things that help for us are playing brown noise on her Yoto player (helps me sleep too tbh - like switching off your brain), keeping her room dust free (she’s sensitive to dust etc), no stimulating tv near bed, no sugar near bed. We don’t do medication either. Also as several people have pointed out her bedtime is crazy early - move it back an hour!

The sleep deprivation seriously does make you feel like you are losing it!

Had a lot of comments about her bedtime being early. Because she doesn't nap and she's on the go all day, she's exhausted by bedtime, but even when we've had a chill day she's still knackered by 6:30. She isn't actually asleep until 7pm.

Think I'm going to ring docs. Both children have large tonsils and she snores and coughs a lot so may explore that avenue first & if it is to do with her tonsils I can hopefully get it sorted before she starts school properly in 2027.

this sounds really challenging. Lots of good advice above to try. 7-8pm for bed no later no earlier is my input.

you mentioned waking up demanding TV. If that’s what she does when she gets up some or all mornings? I suggest changing that routine, less telly after waking up in the mornings so the desire is lifted for telly. She might realise if she can’t watch telly when she wakes she has no incentive to get up.

Grow clock as well, when it’s blue, sleep time, orange is when it’s time to get up .

i found teaching my daughter 7pm and 7am on normal clock she knows herself when it’s time to get up and go to bed. Gently teaching the concept of time helped us massively.

Came here to say the same. An early 7pm bedtime isn’t suiting your child, she’s waking up after a few hours and having split nights. You may be offering too much sleep. Every child is different and Your child may have lower sleep needs. I would gradually move bedtime later and later, keeping a consistent wake-up time. And keeping days nap-free. So she can consolidate her block of nights sleep and these split nights you’re experiencing can be phased out. This may take weeks.