Two troublesome sleepers, loosing my mind

[LurcherMumma]

DD is 2 , historically fought sleep but the would sleep through the night once down. we had finally reached the point in which she could settle herself but then house move, new baby and toddler bed threw everything up in the air. She takes ages to settle at night, she's up once or twice in the night crying (nightmares we think) and again takes ages to settle and then by 5:30 she wants to get up and start the day.
I keep thinking about dropping the nap but she is so tired in the day, even then she still fights the nap and is just in a terrible mood if we cap it short. Tried a few napless days in a row thinking eventually she would sleep longer at night but no. She just became more and more tired and ill tempered during the day.
So my husband mainly deals with her at night whilst I have 3 month old ds. He naps ok in the day and will settle at night when nursed to sleep but will wake up when layed in his cot.
Safe co sleeping isn't working as he doesn't want to be on his back, just on top of me, he sleeps solidly chest to chest but that terrified me and I wouldn't sleep like that. Best case scenario I will get two hours of him lying down at which point he needs feeding anyway but then the rest of the night is up and down every 30 mins or sometimes immediately after being put down. He settles quickly when picked up so HE is getting plenty of sleep but DH and I are loosing it.
The last few days DD has been asking for me more and more. I try and give her some time and settle at her myself but inevitably ds wakes up screaming and won't be settled by DH so we are all awake anyway!

It's lovely to feel so wanted by 2 wonderful kids but I really need the sleep to appreciate it!

I'm sorry to hear you're having such a tough time!

I'd focus on the toddler sleep first as I think that'll be easier fixed, whereas the baby hasn't really learnt how to sleep properly yet and maye have just hit the 4 month sleep regression early.

For the toddler, what is their age in months? What time do they wake up in the morning? What bedtime do you aim for? What time do they actually go to sleep? Nap length and time?

Asking for advice on Mumsnet is tricky. There are many hardcore posters who will advise you to get up and comfort your child every time they wake up and if you don’t do this you are neglectful.

Personally I’d recommend some sleep training for the older child. We did this, our child hasn’t grown up with mental health illness. They are a very happy well adjusted adult.

Not going to offer any advice - I’m a long way from that those days now with teens here, but I do remember the utter hell of it so offering my sympathy.

You will get through it, I know it probably doesn’t feel like it right now!

Look after yourself as much as you can

@ThatMintMember I did wonder about the 4 month sleep regression but I didn't want to get my hopes up in case it gets worse at 4 months 😅. Toddler hit the sleep regressions real short and sharp at that age.

Toddler is 30 months and prior to everything going downhill she would sleep 8pm - 6pm (we would aim for half 7 bedtime but it crept up) the last few weeks it's been more like 9pm - 5am with 1 or 2 longer wake-ups naps anywhere from 0 -90 minutes and we try and get her down around 1pm.

Have you tried offering the nap earlier? That's a long time between wake up and nap time at 1pm. She's probably not getting enough sleep overall but despite being exhausted doesnt have enough sleep pressure for bedtime.

At that age my son was sleeping 9:00-7:00 and a 90 minute nap that ended at 3pm.

She might be gearing up to drop the nap, I remember those months being a bit of a pain. Hard to get down for a nap, exhausted if didnt have on, some late bedtimes, some early ones.

The 4 month sleep regression was ROUGH with my son but lasted 8 weeks and then was over thankfully. Just if you decide to ride it out!

@ThatMintMember thank you I dnt know why we didn't think of that! I think I've been trying to hold down most of the routine as is, in the hope she'll slip back into it but realistically not going to happen if nothing changes.
I did offer a nap at 11:30 yesterday and I would say slightly less resistance to it and she did sleep for 90mins. She was clearly tired by bed time but still shook it off and did everything she could to fight going to sleep. I wonder if the is noise from next door or outside that she can hear and she's scared of going to sleep in her own room.
All that being said it's 7 now and she's not up yet! I think she woke once in the night but will find out when DH wakes up if I missed any

I agree to do the nap earlier, that gap in the morning is too long, and then it gives her longer in the afternoon to build up sleep pressure. I'd focus on the toddler at the moment, lots of connection and cuddles in the day/evening, she's had a lot of change. I know it's tricky at the moment as it's dark, but I wondered if your DH could walk round the block with the baby whilst you put the toddler to sleep? So she's less distracted and gets your full attention?
Unfortunately I think the baby sounds very normal for that age. Are you breastfeeding? If so, can you try side lying feeding then you don't have to pick him up, in theory he can feed to sleep lying down and then just stay there. I found this much more restful for myself, and it's safer than holding him as he can't fall anywhere if he's lying down.

@Peonies12 thank you for your reply. Yes we could swap and I put toddler to bed. Maybe DH could keep the little on in the sling downstairs.

I've been trying the side lying for our naps when it's just me and him and I cannot get comfortable doing it some how, I'll definitely give it another look but I think it's just the shape of my breasts stops it working well!