7yr old can't get to sleep anymore

[CremeDeSudo]

Looking for suggestions on how to improve the ridiculous situation we've found ourselves in with DD. She's 7 1/2, second child. Never had any problems with DS!

She used to go to sleep brilliantly, always been a 6-7am riser. We've done 'all the right things' but somehow now we battle with her going to sleep, and she wakes up stupidly early and is unable to go back to sleep.

Somehow the routine has become

Bath/shower
2x stories
Sing lullaby while massaging her back
Story podcast with pink light on (which is too bright IMO but she will cry about being scared without it)
Stay with her holding her hand
Go downstairs, get shouted at to put a new story on Alexa
Come back up to check on her
Repeat

We aim for 8pm bedtime but often is 830 due to clubs or general faffing from her. She's often still awake til gone 9 and still wakes up early. Last night she was still awake and shouting for 'a new story' at 945. She was then up at 530. We told her to go back to bed. She's unlikely to go back to sleep.

I think she's now anxious about not being able to go to sleep which is making the whole situation worse.

I don't mind sitting with her for a bit, and i have been doing that, but I also want my evening back! I've also been going to her bed when she wakes and can't get back to sleep (she will if she's with me) but the broken sleep is taking it's toll on me now.

How do I improve the situation? Any suggestions? Every night currently feels like a battle, DH is less patient than me and will shout at her which I think just makes her more anxious.

Not sure where to go to improve things!

Take the pressure of a bit and say 8pm is in her room time but let her decide when she wants to sleep and break the habit of sitting with her. So do 1 story then you say goodnight and leave. Then she can sleep, read, listen to an audio book (she should be able to put it on herself) or do quiet playing like Lego or drawing. Then resist the temptation to check! DD is 8 and we’ve been doing it for about 2 years with her and it works really well for her. We get an evening, she’s not pressured and gets enough sleep! So everyone is happy!

Thank you for replying! Will give this a try although I do have visions of her still being up when I go to bed! Anything is worth a go at this point 🙃

I think you need to take any pressure of needing to go to sleep. Keep her up longer in the evening, when it is lighter in the evening I’d do a walk or go to playground after dinner. Or do something physical in the house. Then do bedtime routine and say she can do whatever she wants as long as she stays in bed - read; listen to a story etc. and that she needs to not ‘try’ to go to sleep, thst lying down is restful.

We had something similar with our eldest. She just wanted to play and play until she had a bit of a meltdown. We've tried all sorts but sounds like keeping that routine strong is a good starting point. Maybe also the idea of 'quiet time' at 8pm like @Bitzee said. One other thing is we try to do make up your own stories / choose your adventure when we are about to embark on a change of routine. We used to make them up ourselves but recently found willowtale.ai. One of the mums at our school was talking about it so we gave it a go and loved it.

I agree with this. Get her happy with being in her room by herself, if she faffs around not going to sleep for a couple of weeks, so be it. My youngest is nearly 6 and still regularly falls asleep face down on a book or on the floor next to some toys.

To start with I'd be tempted to try sitting in her doorway for the lullaby onwards, to break the assocation of her needing your physical touch.

Is there a way you can give her control of the audiobooks/podcasts? Or else agree a set number and that's it. Can you stick something over the pink light so she can still have it on but it's less bright - or move it a bit further away from her?

Thanks everyone.

We tried last night, bit of a failure with trying to get Alexa to play what she wanted from Spotify, so having a think about that.

She's now worrying that if she needs us, will we come! So trying to explain that of course we will but we want her to try by herself first (she said she's already trying).

Good shout re moving the pink light, will see if we can do that.

Will also try moving away from her but staying in the room. It's like having a baby again! 🫣

She wasn't a fan of the light move at all, and have had to move it back. Now she keeps having 'scary thoughts'. Sigh.

Hi, I know this is an older thread but I wondered how you were getting on? Has the routine worked? Is your DC falling asleep any earlier?
My 8yo is like this, gets very worked up and upset the later it gets and we’re in a bit of an anxiety cycle at the mo so I think I’ll try saying she can do whatever in her room as long as it’s calm and quiet.
But wondered if you had an update x

Hey, no it didn't really work. What I've been doing now is going to her when she wants me but trying to reduce the time I'm there. We're seeing slow signs of improvement (I think), but she's usually ending up in with me most mornings. I think it's separation anxiety and hoping the reassurance that I'm definitely there when she needs me will improve the situation over time. It's not great though 😞

www.facebook.com/groups/parentsandcarerssupportpod/?ref=share

I've been taking part in this free workshop this past week. About to watch the final part. It's been helpful in making you think about how your child is feeling, haven't yet learned how to handle it yet though! Hoping the last video will help. It's only around til mid March

Watched that follow up video. Some tactics to try around the words we use, so to acknowledge their feelings but reaffirm what needs to happen ie, 'I can see that you're scared, but it's still time to go to sleep'. Don't offer reassurance because you're 'feeding the anxiety'. And essentially I'm doing the right thing by trying to reduce the time I'm there. The course is good but it's definitely aimed at kids with severe anxiety, which my daughter doesn't have!

Any chance she has ADHD? Difficulty with sleep onset is a classic sign and my daughter (nearly 7) struggles just like yours and has done for two years. It's been disastrous for our marriage because, as you say, we have no evening. If we do as PPs suggest she doesn't sleep until 10(!) (having started bath time at 6.30), and then her mood is terrible the next day. So no solutions here, just empathy.

Thank you for the update and sharing your review on that course OP.
I think my daughter’s is also separation anxiety mainly and she’s been like it since she was born 😳 I will just continue with a relaxing routine and a firm approach to staying in her room after a certain time. Wish me luck and solidarity to everyone else going through it - maybe we’ll laugh about it when they’re teenagers who sleep until midday!

I don't know if it’s suitable for a 7 year old, but melatonin has been a total game changer in my life. I used a a few nights in a row with my 11 year old and got his body back into a routine. Now both my 15 and 11 year olds use it occasionally if they’re struggling but it’s not regular. The 11 year old has a quarter of a gummy and the 15 year old has a whole one. I have a half on some nights.

We all have vitamin D and magnesium which probably helps too. Maybe check with your GP first but it’s made going to bed so much easier.

I wouldn't be surprised if she has adhd tbh, I'm convinced I am, and my Mum!

Thank you for the solidarity all!

* runs off to look into melatonin *

My eldest has adhd and is rarely asleep before midnight (even with melotonin), but our rule is she gets ready for bed and is in her room for 8pm - she then reads, makes bracelets, draws etc whatever she wants as long as she's in her room and quiet. Sometimes she gets bored and comes downstairs but were quite strict in sending her back up so she knows it won't get her anywhere. Maybe take her shopping to buy a new book or a cuddly to make it a bit of a novelty at first.