21 month old uncontrollable anything sleep related

[Amr92]

I am absolutely desperate.

my 21 month old slept through the night from 5 weeks old until just after his 1st birthday. We presumed it was the usual sleep regressions / teething that was causing disruptive nights but for nearly a year now bed time and nights have become unbearable.

we have contacted the health visitors twice now for advice and followed everything they have said: dropped the milk, dropped the dummy, same bed time routine every night, the environment, no screen time after 2pm, eat meals together as a family. Absolutely everything they have said we have stuck to. I’ve even taken him to the drs to just be told “see how you get on”

it is getting worse and worse as the nights go on.

Our current situation is:
our son now screams and fights to even go upstairs.
we have to battle to get him in the bath with most nights his tantrums become so bad we don’t make it into the bathroom.
the second we try and take him to bed he screams and tries to fight his way back downstairs. It can take anything from 40mins - 2 hours to get him to settled. And what is breaking my heart even more he will only settle for his dad and not me his mom. When he finally is asleep he is having between 2-4 night time wakes a night…. Sometimes he settled back after 5-10 mins (usually only for his dad) if we are lying next to the cot, however sometimes it can go on for over an hour!

it’s now becoming that day time naps are the same challenge.

we have tried different rooms to sleep in, co sleeping, sleeping in his room next to the cot, we’ve tried letting him cry for a little bit, we’ve tried him out the cot in his room, we’ve tried the pick up put down method the disappearing chair!!!

please can anyone help me I am desperate. Where are we going so wrong?!

I sympathise with you, no sleep is not funny… has he energy? Would taking him swimming at 6 knock him out?? Get dressed into pjs at pool.. and dressing gown.. home, snack bed? Turn off tv..

Thankfully the days are getting longer.. walk the legs off him..

He shows all the signs of being tired if anything he is over tired from the terrible naps and disrupted nights, he is always on the go busy at nursery or playing with his cousins, we always have an afternoon full of running round and dancing to Alexa.
I could definitely try and tire him out more but we seem to have the same night regardless if he’s had a more chilled day or a really hectic busy day.

We have this to a lesser extent but definitely the preference for dad!

We recently had some success starting everything earlier and getting her into bed earlier but that’s gone to pot tonight because she has the starting of a cold……

Sending coffee and watching for any helpful tips

Yeah I think when they’re poorly all routines go out the window and anything goes that they need but at least we know the reason behind it! Hope they feel better soon!

I am really really struggling with the dad preference, I always kind of felt it was a given that moms were a child’s go to for comfort feel like I’ve failed him miserably and can’t understand why he doesn’t want his mommy :(

I will try earlier routine thank you! Maybe he’s just too over tired and I’m missing the right time frame

appreciate this and will give it ago! :)

What time does he wake in the morning, what time are you trying for a nap, how long is his his nap when he eventually goes / what time does he wake up and when are you trying for bed? Sorry 100 questions but useful before offering tips x

He has been walking around 6am (used to be about half 7 but the last 2 months it’s frequently the earlier mark)

his nap is around mid day but sometimes 1pm before he actually settles.

we tried to do nap at 11am but again was so unsuccessful and he would be fighting it crying for over an hour.

at home he naps for about 1 hour. On a random day we have a good 2 hour nap. But confusingly anywhere else he sleeps 2ish hours (ie nursery or his grandparents - who have the exact same set up same night light playing lullabies and do the same sleep time routine as us).

after speaking the health visitor we tried 6.30 every night upstairs for bath, bed for 7ish hoping he would be settled by 7.30pm. However the last 2 weeks he is having a major tantrum so baths are hit and miss and sometimes it’s anything from 9-11 before he’s actually settled for us.

any advice greatly appreciated!

Hmmm normally my first thought is always trying too early, we have been made to think overtiredness is a much, much bigger thing than it is. On the whole, what you describe would (refusing to go down, waking early, waking overnight) if they are self settling without adult input would be much more likely to be not being tired enough. However 6.30-1 is a fairly decent gap typically for his age. If he did have two hours, I would say 3-6.30pm is nowhere near long enough for the last period of being awake before starting bedtime.

It would be very early, but have you tried no nap / a very small cat nap in a car or pram at say 1.30ish for 30 mins? My DD stopped napping completely the day after her second birthday, but I appreciate he’s younger.

my main tip would be to follow ‘just chill mama’ on Instagram and read some of her posts and free blogs. She also does paid courses (which changed my life) and 1:1 work which sadly I couldn’t afford.

I became obsessed with sleep after my nightmare time with DD1, learnt lots but am no expert. Good luck, it’s tough! You have my sympathy.

Thank you so much I will follow on Instagram now and have a look at her stuff.

he also previously went through a stage of no nap because he just would not have one and my god the nights were horrendous I had even nearly called an ambulance on a number or occasions thinking something was seriously wrong as he would be inconsolable for hours during the night - advice from health visitors from that was he was over tired and once we got back into nap routine again that really eased off.

i am not against trying ANYTHING at this point though so thank you for your post. I will even consider paid courses so will have a look now thank you

I came to say exactly the same, I wonder if you’re “trying” too early and he’s getting annoyed, then stressed, and then not going to sleep. I’d do what this poster suggests and try only a short nap earlier in the day, personally I’d do buggy as I find mine drops off easier and is less grumpy when woken . Average nights for toddlers still having a nap is only 10–11 hours. I’d try the short nap, and then wait until he’s visibly tired until you go up to bed, even if this means skipping bath. Overtiredness isn’t the huge Problem the sleep industry likes to make out

Does he have a special object he likes to take to bed? Can you introduce one?

Worth a try.

Has he become scared of something or is he having nightmares do you think? I know you said you've tried different rooms, have you tried just having him stay downstairs with you both on the sofa until he falls asleep? I know it goes against all sleep routine advice but worth a try.

The other thing I thought is could he be in pain, eg with his stomach? Have you ever suspected an allergy or intolerance - often the pain is worse at night so maybe he's associating sleep with that discomfort?

Have you tried a few nights of following his lead? We gave up on a routine with our LO pretty early on as she would just work herself into a rage. Going to sleep is now a 10 minute job rather than several hours of battling a banshee - we just wait for her to start rubbing her eyes, then walk her around the house in my arms for a few mins to settle her a bit, brush teeth, then feed to sleep (I still breastfeed), and we cosleep.

I'd personally offer him his dummy back and any other comfort aids that may help him soothe himself better while in bed (eg teddy/blanket etc). Once he starts working up a more positive association with bed time maybe you could gently transition him towards a routine

Am aware all of this goes against conventional sleep advice, but if your current routine (which sounds sensible) isn't working maybe a bit of anarchy is worth a shot 😅

On a personal note, I think UK/USA sleep consultants expect a bit too much from very small children in terms of sleeping independently - most other indigenous / non European cultures embrace cosleeping and a less rigid approach to putting kids to bed!

Controversial but I think if he’s now waking earlier in the morning to me that’s over tired. I would do bedtime at 7 ish and be consistent for a month. No changes to schedule. Offer a nap in the day.

my daughter is 24 months and sleeps 6.30-6.30. 2 hour nap in the day. We’re starting to have sleep troubles at bedtime too, but it is her asking for food, drink, play etc. we do a method of feber and she settles but can take 30 mins now a days. I am considering moving bedtime back but going to see how we get.

it’s really hard to know what to do for them isn’t it. You have my sympathies

I’ve massively struggled with the preferring too and it has been getting better so hang on I’m there!

We’re a little older at 2.5 but we dropped trying to force the nap and now she sleeps at nursery the 2 days she’s there and might drop off if we’re walking but neither nap nor no nap seems to make a blind bit of difference!

I’d definitely ditch the bath for now. Don’t even mention it as a possibility. Do it another time of day instead.
you also say he’s fighting to get back downstairs. What does he want to do downstairs? Play? Watch tv? Does he have toys upstairs? Is upstairs just this place where he has tantrums and resists going to bed? Can you make it more fun/ associated with happier memories by spending time upstairs playing during the day?
even at bedtime try messing around more upstairs. Hide and seek etc. the whole routine thing doesn’t sound like it’s working so I’d try the exact opposite of what all the “experts” recommend.

My friend's child developed a fear of the bath and that went on for a few years.

I know that you're told by the professionals to do a routine etc but that doesn't have to be a bath every night.

Try a week without a bath and maybe just a morning wash over with a flannel/wipes. It won't hurt for a week.

Perhaps switch it up and read a story in your big bed with Daddy. Not bedtime, rename it 'storytime'. Or put a single mattress in your child's room and lay next to them on that during and after story time to see if they settle better. Sometimes putting them in a single bed is like flicking a switch (but then, for some, it makes it worse).

Also try a visual timetable or a Now and Next board. First clean teeth, then story with Daddy in bed. Next lie down and cuddle Daddy in bed.

I have teens and I've learnt over the years to always trust your own instincts over and 'professional' advice or what society makes you feel like you 'should' be doing.

You know your child and their needs better than anyone so consider that it's not anything you're actually doing 'wrong', it's just that your child can't read the rules yet and marches to the beat of their own drum and that's okay.

It's not you, it's societal expectations!

What happens if you just let him stay up? Low stimulation though, quiet house. Would he fall asleep on the sofa? Ask to go up? I know this isn’t a long term solution but it sounds like it’s a battle and something needs to give. Maybe taking the pressure off (and from your stance, accepting late nights) might give him a little reset?

And hand eye coordination activities can tire them out so maybe try a quiet, calming activity before bed like a simple jigsaw puzzle or threading beads etc so your child gets to play upstairs but it's calming them down for bed.

You could look for something special upstairs that teddy has hidden for the to find and it's a few new calming down activity toys like the one's I've suggested. You could call it 'Upstairs Playtime'.

Or one of you could pretend to be tired and your child and the other parent could put you to bed including reading you a story and tuck you in. Even if you play that game downstairs in the daytime just for imaginary play.

It could just be something as simple that he wants the security of a grown up with them at all times and he's remembers that you're gone when he wakes up and that's scary to him. Perhaps becoming a bit more self aware?

Thank you maybe I’ll relax on trying to force a nap and just go with the flow a bit if he falls asleep naturally I’ll n the day!

We also are still sitting with her til she’s asleep- she so stubborn she will just scream and scream so we took the path of least resistance…… We’re hoping in time she’ll be able to understand a bit more and will be able to not stay one of my friends thinks I’m nuts but but honestly i don’t mind that much as she’s only little for a short while.

I do miss having an evening though but hopefully things will change at some point!!

Thank you! Will give it a go maybe a bit later bed time and relax the bath situation. He doses off quite well in the day in the car it’s just the practicality of it having to drive round and then being nap trapped in the car! I get sometimes you gotta do whatever works for but for routine and getting other jobs done it’s just not ideal

Yeah I also think this is another factor that he’s at the age where he’s understanding more but not quite enough to be able to explain things to him or for him to be able to easily communicate what he wants so i also think frustration from his side makes it all more dramatic.