so....what do you do if you put them to bed and they just get up again?

[Fillyjonk]

ds is nearly 5

he won't stay in his room without us

he is actually being a PITA at bedtime

Shall I bribe him?

(this is kind of my second thread here, I have my reasons for separate threads though, sorry)

Get him up at 7am then? HEd no reason to slack .

And is he getting enough physical exercise? A good long game of football every day? Half an hour walk/run/bike ride twice a day?

iF he's sleeping in, he won't go to bed early, of course he won't. he won't be tired. I agree - get him up a 7am for a week, get a black out blind for his bedroom window (because 7pm is SUNNY) and give him a cool bath at 6pm.

blackout blinds
early wake ups
consistant bedtime routine (we do bath (not that i do the full washing thing, tis more for the warm water, splashabout calming thing)/story/bed)
and then if one of them doesnt sleep (usually they do go to sleep within 10mins of lights out) i, um, threaten to put them in a different bedroom on their own. which they hate, so they go to bed/sleep.

the trouble is we do all that. He DOES normally wake about 7 (this is a lie in in this house, lol.)

he walks a LOT, around 5-6 miles a day (he might do part of this on his bike), plus time in playground

he has a bedtime routine, the usual supper/bath/books/bed but he just isn't falling asleep at the end of it.

so actually the problem is that he sleeps 9.30-7 and I think he should a. have more than 9.5 hours sleep and b. that timing just doesn't work for us, we get no time in the evening

(oh and we have only 2 bedrooms. I think in many ways this is the root of the problem (he arses about when dd1 is there) but not much I can do about it

oh dear I am feeling that this is a bit insoluable

I agree with MadMazza and think routine is the answer-started very, very young. I also tried to stick to it on holidays and only missed if something very out of the ordinary was happening.
Bath with time to play in the water.
Story and then allowed to read in bed but had to stay in bed.

He may need less sleep than average - also this may resolve itself when we move out of summer and it's darker and cooler at night. Human sleep response is triggered by cooling temperature and dimming light. Try cooling his room down?

lol lapin certainly

I am thinking it is less sleep than usual

we are not routine people, though the kids have always had this mini routine, though it bores us rigid.

but dd1 sleeps ok and ds doesn't, and never has

he isn't tired in the day

I have even tried doing relaxation exercises with him (he said "stop it mummy, I like MY OWN thoughts in my head )

ahh

See, i probably sleep more now than I did when I was 5.

5 year olds need more than 10 hours sleep because they have to go to school - if minifilly doesn't go to school, and is able to rest when he feels like it in the day, he may not need that sleep at night.

Is he spppppending at least 2 hours a day running around?

i have had similar with ds, who cannot fall asleep unless someone is there. he is much younger (3.2) but similarly would have the 9.30-6am (he needs a bit less sleep than yours!) slot if he could.

for us dropping daytime nap has helped a lot, although it does mean rather a scramble in the evening as he is often exhausted. it often means he wakes at 5.30am too.

while i am sure your ds isn't having a nap i am telling you this because i have recently discovered that if i miss the early bedtime slot (into bath by 7pm, usually asleep by 7.30) then he will be up till 9pm even if he did rise at 5.30am with no rest in between.

so you could experiment with something much earlier. also try waking him up earlier in teh morning.

god fils, it does sound suspiciously like he just doesnt need that much sleep [agh]

i know with ds2, no matter how tired he is, he simply wont go to sleep unless i hold his hand while he drinks his milk froma bottle (he turns 4 in a few weeks).
if i dont hold his hand then, ive missed my chance and he'll arse about getting up and trying to come downstairs for ages and ages.
and if i do hold his hand, hes alseep within 5-15 minutes (9 times out of 10, within 5 minutes)

worth a try?

ds1 sleeps the same hours as your ds, he has never needed much sleep, cut out all naps at 18 months I console myself with the thought that very bright children need little sleep