HV says learning to self sooth is an important part of development

[Stefka]

So I have to leave him to cry. She's coming out to see me in a couple of weeks to see how I am getting on with the sleep thing. I don't want her too. She makes me feel like a shit mum and that I am doing my baby harm for not letting him cry it out. Lord knows I want to sleep at night I really do but at what price.

If you're not comfortable doing it then don't. Lie to her if neccessary

You don't have to accept her advice. You don't have to have her in your house. Either cancel in advance if you can, or if not then turn her away at the doorstep with a polite "I am confident that we can manage this as a family and don't need any extra help thank you."

Sleep deprivation is crap isn't it? My DS is 21m and it is only very recently that he has slept well. We have never left him to cry. I don't know how people can bear to do it.

Did you ask the HV for advice on sleep? What is your LO sleep like and what would you like it to be like (12 hours straight through in a cot in his own room is not the correct answer)

Agree. Don't do anything you are not comfortable with. What does she mean by 'self sooth'? Leaving him to cry is not an important part of his development

How old is your baby?

Firstly, don't do anything you don't want to. Lying to HVs when they are showing bullying tendencies is absolutely acceptable IMO.

However if you and your baby both need sleep then there is a host of techniques you can use to help her learn to self soothe. Controlled Crying works for some people, there is a gentler method sometimes called Controlled Comforting that worked for us with DD1.

Some babies do need a little cry to help them go off to sleep, DD2 does. Its a moany kind of cry and not the same as her "distressed" cry, and it generally lasts for a minute or so then she drifts off. She doesn't like to be picked up / rocked / cuddled to sleep, it makes her more fretful, so instead I tend to just sit in the room so she knows I'm there while she has a little moan and drifts off.

Anyway, different things are appropriate to different ages, but don't let anyone, HV or not push you into something you're not comfortable with!

No I didn't - she is coming out to see me because the Dr is concerned about my calorie intake and I am breast feeding. He is feeding in the night which is why it came up. She is nice but she makes me uncomfortable - I always feel like she is judging me. I didn't expect the dr to speak to her about me actually. I was a bit surprised when I went to get my baby weighed to find out that the dr had been speaking to her.

Of course you don't have to leave him to sry. Your baby, your choice. Cancel her appt, they're not compulsory!

cry not sry

How often does he feed in the night, Stefka?

Last night it was half ten, one, three and five. I don't mind the five one or the half ten one but I could do without the two in between! He's seven and a half months

That is so young! DS was feeding many times a night at that age. I think it's very common tbh. Do you co-sleep?

You don't have to leave him to cry - what absolute nonsense. Millions of babies worldwide are never left to cry and they develop perfectly normally.

She shouldn't make you feel like she is judging you, and shouldn't be pressing something you don't want to do on you.

Just don't be in when she's supposed to be coming round, or if you feel up to it, ring her (or get DH to do it), and tell her that you are going to find your own mechanism to get more sleep, and its not cc

I never left a baby to cry under 9 months, I probably should've with dc3 as she was showing signs of settling better alone after a 5 minute cry. However I believe a baby cries for needs only before 7 months and has no behaviour to manipulate parents and if you don't want to leave your baby to cry, don't. I wouldn't have until it was the best thing to do and this was with serious thought and felt right.

Oh yes I remember your other thread. Well I suppose it is good that the HCPs are taking your problems seriously and trying to help. But you need the kind of help that is relevant to you and your family situation, not just the same old pat advice they hand out to everyone. If you are not happy doing CC then it is not for you, no matter what the HV thinks.

I can't remember how old your DS is but if he is over 12m you could consider night weaning him. He would probably cry for a couple of nights but it is okay if he is being comforted by you or your DP. I did it with DS at 15m and he has slept very much better since then. But that is only if you are unhappy with the night feeding and think it is affecting your health. If you don't then why should you do something about it to suit them?

Seven and a half months is a long time to have such terrible sleep, you must be exhausted. I would have thought if this carries on you will find the right time to sort it out, perhaps you could express the last nightly feed and give just the hind milk for a heavier feed? maybe leaving baby to cry will become a solution you consider.

Ouch! Big sympathy. I have been there, its rough.

How is he going off to sleep at the beginning of the night? If you can get that straightened out it will probably help the rest of the night too.. At 7 months babies are usually capable of going through the night without a feed (although try telling them that!) so it is probably that he's got used to you feeding him to sleep and needs it to go back off when he wakes in the night..

He's still pretty young though, too young for any more than the gentlest of sleep training IMO..

However if you feel up to trying something, this worked for us with DD1 at around the same age:

You put in place a nice consistent early (7ish) bedtime routine (bath, bf, story/lullaby, bed) then put him into bed sleepy but awake. The idea is for him to drift off without being fed or rocked or cuddled to sleep. This means when he wakes up in the night he won't need to be fed or rocked or cuddled back to sleep.

If he protests going into bed awake because he's used to drifting off on the boob or in your arms, you sit with him and stroke his tummy and reassure him and sing to him til he goes off. If you do this night after night (it will prob take a week or so) he should get the idea, and know that the bath / story / bed routine ends in him going to sleep and just do it automatically.

Yes he will probably cry at first if he isn't used to going to sleep this way, but he will be crying out of frustration because his normal sleep associations aren't there and he hasn't yet built up new ones, not because he is hurt or scared. You will be there to soothe him through it.

HOWEVER the first few nights are crucial, you have to be prepared to be strong and resist the crying, and not crack half way through and go back to old methods. DD1 cried for 1.5hrs the first night we did this. I sang 100 Green bottles sitting on the wall right down to no green bottles, while stroking her tummy. I think I was half way bonkers by the end. But it worked and the next night was 10mins of crying, and then no minutes and she was a much happier baby for it. And at no point did I leave her on her own to cry, which I was glad of.

HTH

Learning to self soothe is an important part of development.

The belief that this is best achieved by letting a seven month old baby cry it out, however, is merely your HV's opinion.

My baby (dc3) slept in my bed for nine months, and fed as much and often as she liked as I the alternative was no sleep. She's now 20 months and the most delightful child ever, and she (finally) sleeps through... as of 4 months ago!!

Jesus, no way. Self soothing is important but your ds is way to young to do it yet and frankly, leaving him to cry his heart out isn't the best way to encourage it.

Far from it. "Crying it out" just isn't suitable for young babies. I think you should ignore your HV.

Please don't leave to cry if it doesn't feel right, in fact don't leave him to cry full stop. It so rarely works for people and I find it sets a pattern of ignoring even when the child may be crying because they are really unwell which I feel is dangerous.

Stefka, its awful isn't it. I have stopped seeing HV completely unless they write to me to ask me to go. They're just not worth the anguish, all it is is opinions so do what you think is best.

My DS is 6 months and has never slept well, at the moment he wakes 3 or 4 times a night sometimes every hour. DH and I are going demented so last night we tried sleep training and I was nearly sick I hated hearing him cry so much. Talilac seems to be talking some sense but for my DS he's used to me being with him when he falls asleep, I stroke his head or something but that means I have to get up every time he wakes in teh night. I'll try the controlled crying for a little while but if marked improvement doesn't happen soon I'm quite resigned to thinking that some babies just don't sleep and he'll get better in the end.

I'm rambling a bit, sorry. Don't know what I'm trying to say other than I know what its like, whatever you do in the end.

wizzska - Thats rotten for you. I presume he's in his own room?

Have you tried gradual withdrawal?

Ie, if he's used to you stroking his head while he falls asleep, then one night you do that for a bit, then potter round his room putting things away and tidying up, then stroke some more

then night 2, you stroke for a bit, then potter both in and out of his room, always in earshot, so he knows you are around

night 3 more pottering but more outside his room than inside.

until finally after a week or so of pottering about you say goodnight and leave him to it and he goes off to sleep without you there.

Again, the idea is to eventually get to the point where he goes to sleep without you so doesn't need you to go back to sleep if he wakes up in the night..

Any use?

My DD was exactly the same at 7.5 mo. Now 9mo and only just started going for longer stretches, although she still has her bad nights. I think being mobile has helped wear her out during the day. Still BF her to sleep.

Ignore the HV. If she does come knocking don't answer the door.

I echo all the others Stefka - if your gut instinct is no, than don't do it.

You can get through this. HVs are great but they often have a 'one size fits all' approach which is nonsense. Mine offered to coach me through CC when DS was 12 weeks old. I wasn't up for it so she tried to get me through gradual retreat. What she didn't grasp no matter how much I repeated it was that DS would get himself hysterical within a few moments of being laid down and obviously hysterics do not = sleepy. He just isn't 'that' sort of baby. So I do things my way and we're all a bit tired but for the most part we cope and as long as he's happy and not hysterical and sad then I'm happy too.

I really hope you get into a better patch soon, you're having a rotten time of it. Much sympathy