Split nights, day time sleep already capped!

[dcmum25]

Hey!

Our baby is 7 months and is on the lower end of the spectrum for sleep needs (usually around 12 hours across a 24 hour period). We had a couple of weeks where she would sleep through, with a dreamfeed at 12.

The last week or so has been awful. We've had constant split nights where she's up for 2 hours and she's now averaging more like 10 hours sleep across a 24 hour period.

Day time sleep is already capped. She can be up for 2 hours overnight, only sleep for an hour during the day and still have another split night.

When she's awake she's pretty happy and alert, meeting milestones well and falls asleep really well (independently, no dummy or feeding to sleep). There's no real scientific evidence backing up overtiredness so please no suggestions about that.

Did anyone go through anything similar and sleep got back on track? The split nights are really hard when she also doesn't really sleep during the day! Most 7 months I know are sleeping 2 to 3 hours during the day.

Thank you 🙏

Why are you capping daytime sleep?

@Bringmethesleep she doesn't need loads of sleep. We tried not capping her daytime naps and it was a disaster (and most the time she'll naturally wake up after 30 mins anyway). Some babies just need much less sleep and we'd rather her use those hours at night, not during the day!

I also question why you’re capping such a young baby’s daytime sleep.

I have four kids, and they all slept better at night if they’d had unrestricted sleep during the day. I didn’t stick to nap times, just let them sleep when they wanted to. If they looked tired or I was tired then I’d initiate some calm time in a dark-ish room. Especially at 7 months when feeding/cuddling/talking/massage in a calm room is a good “activity” even if they don’t fall asleep.

We had several periods of split nights and they were almost always linked to some stimulating change like moving nursery room or Christmas disruptions etc.

Less daytime sleep doesn’t necessarily mean more nighttime sleep.

we'd rather her use those hours at night, not during the day!

I don't think it works like that. And what you are going isn't working.

It maybe only hearsay but with six of my own and plenty of experience with other babies I would say what you don't want me to . She is overtired.

This is completely normal. She is waking up after one sleep cycle and just needs some help to get back to sleep. It doesn’t mean she’s had enough sleep. She’s not yet linking sleep cycles for daytime sleep. In my experience, sleep begets sleep, especially at such a young age. I know you mention you don’t feel there’s any scientific evidence regarding over tiredness, but it really sounds like this is the case for your little one. Over tiredness is a very common cause of split nights, whether you agree or not. I understand you feel she is on the lower end of sleep needs, but clearly something isn’t working the way things are. Just a thought. Good luck! It’s tough!

Even if I don't wake her up, her average is only about 1h30 worth of daytime sleep. She's been the same ever since a newborn, I would absolutely never purposely make my own baby overtired! She's very happy and alert between her periods of sleep and has been early with almost all her milestones, a baby that was genuinely overtired / sleep deprived I imagine would struggle a little more in those areas. Ultimately babies are human and like adults, only have a certain amount of sleep!

I'm not sure if any of your babies have been lower sleep needs. Trust me, if she would sleep more I would let her (we've had 7 months of encouraging her to sleep more!)

Thanks all for the advice.

Even if I don't wake her up, her average is only about 1h30

if she would sleep more I would let her

You're contradicting yourself here.... If you wake her up from naps, she is needing more sleep.

I had one that had very low sleep requirements, and frequently was awake for 2-3 hours in the middle of the night. I certainly didn't stop him napping during the day! It took time, but things did eventually sort themselves. He stopped all naps at 18 months though. He always needed little sleep until teenage years hit.

Just to add (because I don't want people thinking I'm purposely making my baby overtired). She shows little signs of being overtired, no crying, no fussiness, going down for bedtimes and naps is super smooth and she's waking up smiling and happy. During her split night she's not crying or rubbing her eyes, just happily playing in her cot. She doesn't need rocking or feeding to sleep and she'll drift off independently once she's tired.

Unfortunately for us she's just always been at the very bottom of the national sleep foundations suggested 24 hour sleep times.

She's just starting to crawl so hopefully we're just in a phase (never had split nights before and we've always followed the same sleep routine, mainly led by her sleepy cues).

I had a low sleeps needs with my eldest. Dropped to 1 nap at 11 months, altogether at 2 years. Averaged 10 hours sleep from 11 months. He's now 8 and still is low sleep needs. Even if he goes to bed at 10pm he will wake at 6am. We regularly had 2 hour wake cycles between 1am and 3am from about 1-3 years.

I found it was worse with when reaching development milestone. It would get better between them.

I found noone in real life understood. I always got you need to make them nap, you need to help them sleep. See a sleep consultant, they will help. You just have to be consistent ........But nothing worked.

I eventually just had to start going to be at 7pm when DS did, deal with the 2 hour wake windows in the week and at weekends DH took the wake windows so I could sleep. It eventually got better by about 4 years I think (after we got rid of night nappies) and now at 8 he sleeps through fine. He is still low sleep needs but I manage to get nearly 10 hours Mon to Fri (weekends he gets about 8-9 hours).

@SJM1988 thank you so much!

Our little girl has always slept well overnight, just not for very long so I'm very confident overtiredness isn't the issue and she just doesn't need much sleep. We can't force a baby to sleep!

It's tough when all the other babies around us are much higher sleep needs (of course we've tried everything everyone suggests to increase sleep). Interesting you say it got worse around developmental milestones, there's a lot going on with her now so I'm guessing that is it.

Thanks for the support! Glad you're getting a bit more sleep nowadays 🙏

Baby sleep isn’t linear. Just because she’s previously been low sleep needs doesn’t necessarily mean she’s always going to be low sleep needs. Split nights can often mean overtired along with a too early bedtime. At the very least I’d try not capping the daytime naps for a week along with putting her to bed a bit later, and then see if you have any improvement and go from there.

@Bitzee thanks! I should of just kept out the capping bit, we only do this if she's going over 2.5 hours which I think has almost happened once in about two months so ultimately, we are letting her sleep whenever she wants (she just tends to cap herself at 1h - 1h30!). Bedtime is already about 8-8.30pm but will try pushing back again!

OP, "sleep begets sleep" is a load of rubbish, and I agree, so is "overtiredness". You can't force more sleep than babies need. Mine is 14 month now and has never slept more than 90 mins total in the day, not since she was about 3 months. Usually 60 mins split across 2 naps, sometimes 1 nap now. She usually goes down for 11-12 hours overnight, with a couple of short wakes. I'd much rather she did her sleeping at night! If it's only been a recent thing, I'd be inclined to leave it and see if it's a temporary developmental phase. Mine has never slept "through", but that's normal. Do you have a set wake time? That has helped mine.

@Peonies12 thank you 🙏 helpful to find someone with a similar view. When she was younger we drove ourselves absolutely crazy trying to make her sleep more but it made us all miserable! Much easier now we've accepted she doesn't follow the 'typical' sleep patterns.

Yeah it's only been the last week or so, so my guess is developmental. Just a tricky phase when they don't catch up on the lack of night sleep during the day, haha.

Very glad to find another limited day sleeper, the standard for us is about 2 x 30/45 mins a day.

She was waking at 7 pretty consistently, but she's struggling to make it to 7 now so I might move this forward to 6.30am and see how that goes.

I've had one of each and the low sleep needs is a killer,

we did find DS2 split nights were worse when he went to bed 'too early' even now at 5 his 9 year old brother is asleep before him (9 year old sleeps 8:30 -7:30) the 5 year old sleeps around 9/9:30 - 7/7:30ish.

We realised, for us, what worked best was being led by him rather than fighting against him.He still wakes in the night anytime between 2am-5am and comes into our bed but thankfully now he goes straight back to sleep.

@QforCucumber thanks for your response, really appreciate it.

We're in a tricky nap transition stage as well which I don't think is helping. Need to get back to her 8pm/8.30pm bedtime which was working really well!

@Peonies12 nobody is telling OP to “force” her baby to sleep more…but people were wondering why they cap the daytime naps. And unlike your baby, OP is saying hers is awake for hours overnight. Which obviously can be completely normal, but OP has posted asking for advice, which some people (including you) have given.

Hello all! For any interested parties, it seems as though we're cutting 3 teeth at once which would explain the unsettled sleep!

Had some Calpol before bed yesterday and she did her usual 8pm to 6am with a dreamfeed. A bit more restless tonight but I don't blame her, 3 teeth is rough!

She doesn't seem to show any other teething signs apart from unsettled sleep (her first two cut around 5 months) so I always forget teeth could be the culprit!

Thanks all for the advice!

yeah it's taken us a while to just accept ours is a night sleeper. Drove myself mad trying to force longer naps, now just given up. Some days at nursery she will only have one 20 min nap.. but i can't do anything about it, so we just deal with the tiredness!

You could try ibuprofen/nurofen. It’s usually much better for teething and lasts up to 8 hours vs. 4 for calpol so can get you a longer stretch overnight.