Toddler sleep - What would you do?

[Botanicalsatthesea]

Looking for sleep advice from anyone who has been through it with a toddler.

My toddler is 20 months. She has never slept through and often wakes up between 2 - 5 times a night. I am worn out, and the constant sleep deprivation is taking its toll. I am not expecting a child that magically always sleeps, but I would like to try to make a bit of an improvement.

SLEEP SET UP: I co-slept with her from about 12 weeks. I exclusively breastfed, and co-sleeping was safer for me than falling asleep holding her while feeding.

Now as a toddler: she sleeps in a very low double bed in her own room, having never settled in a cot. This allowed us to lay with her to sleep (dad) or feed to sleep (me), and co-sleep or leave her and come back on wakings.

Her dad used to be able to settle her with a cuddle, her soft cloth, and a dummy. We've had the odd day where he can do the night shift, and I get a bit of sleep, but lately, she only wants me. (There's definitely some separation anxiety going on.) When he goes in to settle her, she will ramp up until hysterical, and I end up going in to feed her back to sleep.

Two things wake her often:

1. She has repeated colds from nursery, and this gives her a little cough that wakes her often at night once she's lying down. (Nothing sinister - Dr checked - I'm a similar person. I try giving cough medicine and an elevated head when sometimes)
2. She's a very slow teether. One molar seemed to take weeks to come through, and they come through slowly. (Again - checked and nothing sinister - slow teething is genetic)

We are still breastfeeding as she has continued to want to, and since this is following WHO/NHS advice to breastfeed until at least 2 - I'm happy to continue. However, if I settle her at bedtime, she will always want to feed to sleep. She won't accept only my cuddles and gets very upset. She used to take the dummy and the soft cloth and use them to soothe a little. She seems to have grown out of the dummy now.

I have read/heard mixed outcomes from mums who have stopped breastfeeding to sleep. Some found their baby slept through, and others found they were left without a tool to help their unsettled/bad sleeper baby to get to sleep.

I don't think extreme cry it out will be well-suited to us as a family, because:

1. of her temperament: She's a very expressive toddler - big loud cries, gets worked up and can get hysterical when sad - and at the same time- seems to be one of the happiest babies at nursery - smiley, chatty and loving. So emotional both ways. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't give up.
2. I am averse to it - sleep training didn't work for me as a baby - I used to get so distressed that I vomited. I don't like the idea of putting my daughter through that. I've seen some mum friends have great success and others fail. Success seems to depend on the child.
3. We must have paper-thin walls, as the neighbours have commented about the noise. So I'm not keen to subject them to hours of screaming.

I have already started (although inconsistently) trying to do some graduated training - patting her, saying goodnight, leaving, coming back, settle and shh. She's in hysterics in minutes - and coming back and forth only seems to ramp this up. It doesn't seem to provide her with the message - 'we are here, you need to sleep, you are safe'.

We try not to go in too soon. If she is just grumbling, we let her. She occasionally resettles herself when we are watching her on the monitor early evening, but not consistently, and rarely after midnight.

The advice online is so basic - her lunch nap isn't too long, we have a bedtime routine, we use white noise, and I tailor her bedclothes to the weather, she's tired at bedtime.

Would would you do?

1. Stop breastfeeding to sleep at night - cold turkey but I keep doing bedtimes. Deal with the screaming that this will involve. But it sounds like it's the problem and she will settle better without it.
2. Continue co-sleeping and feeding to sleep - sounds like she's not a good sleeper, and she needs the support. Things will get better eventually.
3. Get dad to do all the bedtimes/nights and hide in the other room with some headphones on while she screams at him.
4. Any other ideas?

From a foggy brained mum x

I would go for either 2 or 3. They're both good options, it's just dependent on what works best for you as a family.

An important thing to remember is that she WILL settle for her Dad or for you without a BF. If you left/died/went to prison/went to hospital or your milk just dried up tomorrow she wouldn't die of sleep deprivation. She wouldn't even stay awake for 24 hours! She'd be fast asleep soon enough, so get out of the headspace that she can't settle for anyone else/can't settle without a feed. She can and she will.

The question is how far do you want to push it. If the answer is not at all then carry on feeding and co-sleeping, that's a perfectly reasonable approach. If the answer is a little bit then stop feeding, but send DH in to sleep with her/settle her. If the answer is a big push then look up some gentle sleep training methods and implement them consistently.

I think you should let your husband do all the night settling for around a week. She may get upset, but it will likely be because of the change rather than the lack of you specifically. Of course it's not nice AT ALL to let them get upset but it's not as if she is not being soothed or tended to if your husband is in there with her. She is hopefully old enough to understand if he keeps repeating a mantra like "mummy is sleeping! but daddy is right here and you're safe!" it should click eventually! Sending hugs to you though, it's very tough. x

Thank you both for your kind and constructive comments. It helps to think through our challenges and needs.

Last night my partner tried to settle her. After the third time of her waking up and screaming at him intensely for an hour, I went in and fed her as we hadn’t had any sleep and I had an important meeting at 9am. I guess we are pretty weak when it comes to tolerating so much screaming in the middle of the night.

This might sound obvious but have you tried her with a bottle of cows milk? Could be worth trialling alongside breastfeeding initially.

I know at her age you’d be thinking of fazing out bottles, but I found that it was a really easy way to reduce/stop breastfeeding. I stopped with DD when she was 17 months because I was suffering with morning sickness.

Also, I don’t think the advice is to breastfeed until at least* *two. AFAIK it’s ‘at least 6 months’ and up to two or beyond if happy/or into the second year of life, which you are already doing. Don’t stress yourself out, you’ve well surpassed the 6 month minimum.

No advice but just to say I’m in the exact same situation with my just turned 2 year old and I know how tiring it is. Huge sympathy. I think the common theme is the breastfeeding and their attachment to it. I think it’s all my DD knows in terms of soothing back to sleep. I’m so reluctant to stop though because I know the screaming and hysterics won’t make it worth it. I think it’s going to be a case of riding it out but it doesn’t fill you with much joy! Hope it gets better for you OP

You may have mentioned it but I can't see really. Is she sleeping much in the day? Just wondering if the daytime is what needs adjusting and then the night time routine may happen. I know with mine, just half an hour of extra sleep at the wrong time through their bedtimes out. Try a diary of her entire sleep times, what she does when awake etc. It may be something to work on.

Have you tried cuddle and feed on the sofa with low lighting. No TV. Some gentle sleep music? Then dad taking DD up to bed. Short gentle story. Night light and continue sleep music?
When mine were little we were more successful introducing a new routine when on a short holiday, away from home. Then stuck to the new routine on return.

Good luck. It is never easy.

You've had some great advice so I won't repeat what's been said but a thought re colds from nursery/being congested. I get similar (my daughters too) and find that a little essential oil in the room really helps - either a blend like DoTerra's Air, or a cheaper option (which I use!) is Peppermint and a eucalyptus oil (a few drops of each) either on a tissue placed near but out of reach or a diffuser really helps reduce the congestion and thus ease the breathing/reduce coughing. (Check for usage if you have an any pets in the room though)

(For anyone curious this also helps with snoring! 😁)

Good luck OP - "this too shall pass" - it really does get better xx

We got the book Precious Little Sleep. It goes through various sleep training methods- it does cover cry it out but also has more gentle methods, honestly it saved out marriage 100% recommend.

How is her appetite for food during the day, is it possible she wakes with hunger? With my twins I started giving a weetabix or porridge then a short feed for bed, over the last 6 months they have stopped waking and don't drink milk for bed or wake at all now, they have just turned 3, wishing u all the best OP...it's really tough 💐

This Is so personal but my reaction to reading your post is that it is probably not great for your daughter’s development long-term to be waking up so many times in the night. Having long stretches of quality sleep is important for all of us. So I think that helping her learn how to self-soothe would be so good for her, not to mention you!

Since you’re finding it difficult to cope with her tears — which is very understandable — it sounds like it’s making it hard for you to stick with new plans. But then that ends up sending a mixed message to her and might end up causing more tears cumulatively. I think whatever plan you come up with you need to find something that you can be super committed to so that you don’t confuse your daughter. Personally I would think option 1 or even CIO or Ferber sleep training might be best under the circumstances because it means drawing a firm line in the sand and getting it over with — this might be more painful for a couple of days but perhaps easier for all in the medium to long term, and because it’s such a clear line in the sand, maybe you could stick with it more easily.

Good luck regardless! This is all so difficult!

Just saw your update @Botanicalsatthesea Totally agree multiple screaming night wakings is upsetting and unsustainable for all. Might it be worth weaning from the BF entirely? I just wonder if it would be easier for her to understand if you weaned both day and night because at this age you could at least try to communicate "mummy's milk is all gone! lots of cuddles though!" etc and it takes the pressure/confusion off it only being at nighttime.

My daughter was similar, she was still having so many night wakings I couldn't function. As pp said, I think the common theme here is the feeding to sleep. At 18 months, I couldn't take it anymore, dried my milk up with cabbage leaves, told her there's no more milk and we just cuddled to sleep. She took to it amazingly (and surprisingly) well and she started sleeping through. I've heard stories from others that it didn't work for them, so it may not be a magic cure for everybody, but at that age, they are old enough to understand.

I'm now going through the same with my 9 month old, his sleep is even worse and I'm counting down the days he's old enough to understand so I can dry my milk up again and hopefully put at end to this madness.

Her appetite goes up and down. Some days it’s asking for seconds and other days it’s nibbling. I try to offer whole milk and snacks before bed on her lower food days. I haven’t tracked if there are more wake ups on low food days. This might be interesting to see. Thanks :)

Thanks again, everyone. Update of where we are at.

Partner has been doing all night settling, to stop the night feeding. I say goodnight and see her in the morning and tell her no milk until morning downstairs on the sofa. She’s hadn’t protested much about me leaving and accepts his comfort. She’s wanted him more again in the day which is lovely as she was so focused on me.

However, this has coincided with the worst cough. She is unwell and off nursery, not eating and her cough makes her vomit. She’s waking up 5 times a night. Partner waits for her to try to settle until her grumbles turn to cries. She has managed to resettle herself early on but it gets harder for her as the night goes on. And she’s awake each time for an hour just crying/groaning.

My partner is determined to keep trying, so the night feeding can end. But he is a high sleep needs person. After 6 nights, he looks wrecked and I don’t want him driving us anywhere.

I guess we wait until she’s better and see what happens next….

I was really heartened by the start of your update- it gave me hope to start the night weaning! I’m very sorry that DD is poorly though, it’s really tough when they are and not nice to see them like that. Hopefully a temporary set back in the journey to a full night’s sleep!

I’ve the same problem as you and we decided to cosleep having never done it until DS was 16 months but I needed sleep and began to resent DH for not having boobs.

We set an ikea crib up against our bed like a toddler size next2me. DS starts in his room then comes in to ours as I don’t want him to forget he has his room all together. He wakes 1-2 times with us but I just side feed him and he rolls over. I find I’m half awake and can doze off straight away after which is so much better than sat in a nursery chair.

I don’t know how I’ll phase out cosleeping, but that’s a problem for another day..

Joining in as we're on the same boat with our 13 months old.
I've always shared bed and nursed him to sleep since birth. We don't have space for cots or children's bed so cosleeping is the only option. He never sleeps through the night, wakes up 2-3 times before midnight and every 2-3 hours thereafter so in total 4-5 feeds/night.
He's always been a short sleeper during the day but lately started doing 2 x 40 minute cycles without the need to be settled back so I feel he knows deep down how to self settle but just wants breast at night because mummy is always there! I wouldn't mind the night feeds as I'm half asleep but it's particularly difficult between 7-11pm as ideally husband and I want to spend time alone or get things done without me having to always lie down with DS.

I also want to continue breastfeeding until he's 2 and I function with short sleeps.
A friend stopped breastfeeding cold turkey at 18 months because she couldn't take it anymore and they cried 3 days and 3 nights then her child forgot about the breast! But that's not something I'd want to resort to until we've tried other methods.

I'll be watching the thread - good luck and looking forward to more advice and updates!

It’s been just over four weeks. I’m so pleased with the night weaning. She’s adapted so well and I’ve been able to set more boundaries in the day. This means I am getting more sleep, because I don’t have to be on duty.

Her sleep has improved and we’ve had some of the longest stints that she’s done. However, she still wakes up a few times most nights, but cuddles with my partner. He ends up in bed with her some nights and others she will settle quickly.

I think we are now on a slow and steady journey to improvement that it suited to us as a family without too many tears.

Thanks for the update, it's great to hear it's been going well! Do you still breastfeed during the day, what does her nap look like and how does she settle in the daytime?

Yes- still breastfeeding. Mostly in the morning after she wakes up and evening before she goes up to bed. Introduced that she could only have it on the sofa downstairs and she seems to have accepted that. This means I can say no when we are out the house now too - as I didn’t enjoy doing that anymore.

in the first week of nightweaning her interest in the day skyrocketed, but this week it’s reduced a lot. Which I can’t believe as she’s always been such a milk monster.

For her nap…Sleeping for around hour and a half. No milk before nap usually. I tend to take her for a walk in the pram if she’s with me as I’m usually keeping busy, but my partner puts her down in bed as he likes a rest. She’s at nursery on other days and naps there well too.