Getting baby to sleep

[CS86O]

My baby is 12 weeks old and has recently started refusing to be put down in her crib at night.
I've followed wake windows, tried putting her to bed just as she comes towards the end of it, right at the peak of it, letting her go past it a little to build up sleep pressure....none work. What's even worse is I rock her, she falls fast asleep, I keep rocking until she's well away, put her down, hold her in place etc etc arms are up and she seems out for the count, then she wakes up and it's like she's had a cat nap and wants to smile away (after screaming to be picked up obviously!)
I'm demented hearing problem talk about their schedules and how baby is 'down for bed' at 8:30pm etc etc. I can't bloody get her to bed!
She won't last more than 5 mins for naps in the day either so I'm contact napping and have started trying to start the nap in the crib (next to me) using crib side comforting and she sometimes gets very close to drifting off but then realises and wakes herself up again 🤣 I hold her in a cradle hold and then lie her in there in my arms and slowly move away once she's asleep to try and get her used to being lay down but I don't know if it's making a jot of difference to her opinion on the crib!
Any ideas or reassurances welcome! The transfer to the crib bit isn't really the problem, it's getting her to stay there! Thank you!

Get rid of the idea of putting her down in the crib and have a look at how to co-sleep safely.

My DD is nearly 5 months and it’s the best decision we ever made.

I don’t know if this is going to help but at that age with both of mine we kept them with us downstairs, one of us held them, they fed as they liked, when we went up to bed they’d go in the next to be or actually next to me. We didn’t do bedtimes until they found their own usual sleeping time for the night which was much older than 3 months.

You’re doing fine, your baby is doing fine and being a completely normal baby. If you could choose between a cold empty cot and a warm cuddly mum what would you choose? They want to be close to us as that’s what all human and mammal babies have done and will always do. You’ve plenty of time for routines.

Are you winding her properly? Some of them really struggle to get gas up and then they’re uncomfortable so stir easily. Have you tried a love to dream swaddle? If not, so long as she’s not rolling, that could be worth a go. But some of them do just hate settling in a cot. Our oldest was fine with it (woke up a lot but would go in it). Second has resisted it from day 1, still a terrible sleeper at 8 months. We did do a bit of co sleeping but I didn’t particularly like it and since he’s been able to roll he’s not settled well in bed with us anyway. It’s worth a go though if you think it might work for you. You have my sympathy, it’s hellish. I’m waiting for a stint of time when he definitely doesn’t have a cold or is teething, and am then going to do some sleep training.

You say that now but how will you move on from that? Babies need to learn to settle themselves in a crib or cot.

Haha, that sounds familiar, sorry for your distress, thoughts and prayers. My 7mo normally sleeps for 10 mins until you're nice and comfy on the sofa and have just restarted the TV.

Mine started the 4m sleep regression at 3m and still hasn't come out of it, so some of it might be that. If you're lucky, she'll get through it fast.

Other things we've tried with mixed sucess. Is the bed cold? Ours likes naps on the sheepskin rug. Is there a draft? Is the cot big enough? Ours rolled, banged and got wedged in the little cot. Are her clothes comfy? Have you seen the snugglbundl blankets? Mine was a summer baby so I never used it, but they promise the Earth. Will she sleep in the car or pram or carrier? One longer nap per day might help.

Start with first nap of the day trying to settle baby in cot instead of on you and go from there (if having a baby who sleeps happily in cot is your aim). Do you have a nice consistent routine? Change/book/songs/darkness?

No they don’t, babies can eventually learn to self settle by themselves without leaving them. Appreciate if you have a baby with a sensitive temperament you’re waiting a long while but it’s not a necessity

OP it can be super tough. We found that our baby was cold and needs room temperatures above/at the top of what the lullaby trust recommends. Cosleeping helped us get more sleep, and ignore others with babies who sleep more, it’ll drive you crazy

I'm not against co-sleeping but how do you then put them to bed in the future without going at the same time as them?

I had a very similar situation with my baby at that age. We just persevered with practicing putting her down ‘drowsy but awake’ and she eventually got it when she was just over 4 months.

thinking about it now I think that what worked for us in the end was realising that she actually wanted to go down for the night a lot earlier than we had been. For about 5 months her bed time was 6pm, then it moved to 7pm when she was 8 months or so.

Thank you ❤️ can I ask what you mean by 'found their own sleeping time'? How did you know?
We were doing this since she was born but now if we go to bed at 10ish it's 1 or 2am before we've got her down and it's only because she's so exhausted!!!

Why do they? Millions of babies never see a cot or a crib never mind sleep in one.

At 12 weeks old that won't be an issue. Their sleep will be completely different by 6 months old, honestly. Don't worry about creating habits, babies don't really have learned behaviours until about 6m+ anyway. If co-sleeping works for you, do it. We did a combo of cot and co-sleep and it's not been an issue for us.

I contact napped most of the day naps at that age (unless they fell asleep in the car). It's normal. Being put down in a cold hard cot away from mum is not a good thing as far as a baby that young is concerned (and it makes sense from an evolution pov).

I heard something about babies needing an amount of time in contact and bonding with mum. If you give it them through the day, they can cope better with the separation at night. The amount of physical connection they need is max at birth and (slowly) decreases over the first few years of life. Babies can't be taught to self soothe, but grow to be able to as they mature and have confidence

Do you swaddle her? It could be she’s still having the startle reflex? You obviously have to stop swaddling close to when they can roll.

I kept mine downstairs with me at this age. In the day if you have to contact nap to get them to have a good stint of sleep then do that, and change your mindset….soak in the contact naps and try enjoy them.

Do you use white noise?

When they’d go to sleep then do a longish stretch without waking or feeding. DD would usually fall asleep on DH while he was sitting on the sofa and then by around 6 months she’d stay asleep when I took her off him and put her in our bed or the next to me.

I could never figure it out with dd. I’m convinced that all that drowsy but awake, hold them and put them down this way, hold the arms, follow the wake windows, tired but not overtired etc is made up by smug parents who think they had any impact at all on the fact their child just happens to be a good sleeper.

we resorted to co sleeping. She’s still a terrible sleeper but at least she’s not wide awake like she was in her cot.

Drowsy but awake is a myth.

Wake windows are a myth.

Either you have a baby who naturally can sleep independently, or you don't.

It's ok, it's nothing you're doing wrong. You're doing a good job. If your kid needs to be held, or sleep next to you, allow it. Eventually they all grow up ☺️

Yeah we have a solid routine for bed (which seems redundant half the time as she's still awake hours later trying to get her to sleep 🤣) and for a nap at the moment I take her into the other living room, wrap the same blanket over her, sing the same lullaby and then rock her to sleep.
So do you mean keep trying with the first nap (which is defo the easiest to get her into!) putting her down drowsy but awake, see if she settles and, if not, rescue the nap and only try that one again the next day? Rather than try it once for each nap throughout the day?
Thank you for the advice!

So LO is nearly 5 months now. For the first 8 weeks she’d stay up (downstairs, contact napping, feeding etc) with me until I went to bed about 10pm.

From then I’ve fed her to sleep in my bed and then once she’s asleep down a hilarious roll out.

We now take her to bed for about 9pm (we used the huckleberry app) and feed to sleep, then I head back to bed with her sometime between 10pm and 3am (once 😅). She sleeps fine by herself in that time.

The last four weeks or so I’ve also started putting her down in her cot to nap for the first nap of the day (depending on our activities) and that’s going steadily.

At some point, she’ll want to be in her own bed and room, but not for a while yet. Evolutionary, babies just weren’t designed to be apart from their main caregiver when they were so dependent on them!

This gives me hope with the naps!! I also must say my husband and I were talking earlier and I think we both hate to hear her cry (shes generally very content!) that we maybe don't give her long enough to try to go to sleep herself when we know she's tired (I don't meant CIO at all, I mean we pick her up within seconds of her crying 😭)

Today her morning nap was 2 hours so I'm going to try and get her to bed earlier as I think she's almost having 3 parts to her sleep but because she goes down so late, her second 'night wake up' is more like 7am so we just get up! So if I could push her back to more like 9 then she could have an earlier wake up and bottle and maybe another 2 hours before getting up time!

Thank you for the advice and encouragement!!!

I have co slept with both of mine. I would lie next to them in bed until they're asleep then go back downstairs and watch on a monitor, so you don't need to go bed at the same time.

My son is 3 and it didn't create a bad habit for him, he went in his own cot in his own room about age 1 without too much upset. I didn't rush it and it was drama free. No regrets with co sleeping for us.

Yes, if you want to spend a couple of days trying to teach her this I would try to spend a few days at home focussing on baby. Do the first nap in the same cot you’re using for night sleep and see if she’ll settle independently for that first nap, make it dark and give her a chance to fall asleep in the cot without rocking. Don’t feel like you need to creep out or put baby down tentatively (she will know somethings afoot!) keep it happy and light, sing songs.

I wouldn’t suggest leaving her to cry but I do think there’s a difference between an upset cry and a bit of a grizzle as they are tired and fall asleep. Think about setting a time you’re comfortable with (even if it’s only 10-30seconds) leaving her to try to get to sleep by herself.
Dont underestimate the benefit of getting out in the daylight and fresh air beforehand too!
If first nap goes well but not the others you could wake her after about 45mins from her first nap to help her get to sleep for second nap.
This is a really good age to start to gently giving her the chance to do this.
Good luck!

Sounds totally normal at that age? They've been inside your body for 9 months, why would they want to be away from you. At that age, we kept baby with us in the evenings, and all went to bed together around 9/10pm. That's in line with advice about being in the same room til 6 months anyway. You might then find baby does a long stretch aligned with your bedtime. Honestly just do whatever works for naps, mine always naps better in the buggy or carrier. It's better to do naps in light environments with some noise - you don't want to enable deep sleep in the day. Look at the Possums approach to sleep. Really don't worry about schedules / routines, mine is 13 months and never had two days the same in terms of sleep! Enjoy your day, get outside, go to baby groups, see friends. Baby will benefit from being out and about, seeing new things.

@Peonies12 ”you don't want to enable deep sleep in the day” … where have you got this from? Babes have differrent cycles to adults and sleep more deeply after about 20 minutes, there is no need to wake them up. This is just not a thing. Sleep is so beneficial.

Thank you for the advice on possums approach , I'm looking into it.
It's not that I don't think it's 'normal', it's just killing us. It's great that you were able to keep yours down with you until 9/10 and then go to bed and I'm sure that it would align better with our sleep......but she won't go to bed! It's takes hours of trying so ends up being 1am/2am before she's so exhausted she falls asleep. I would LOVE to keep her with us and all go to bed together but we just can't get her to stay asleep in her crib, that's the problem.