Advice please: I dread the nights

[Sk1sk0]

My almost 8 month old has never been a great sleeper but the last month or so nights have become horrendous. At least six wake ups a night and up for the day by 5.30am without fail whether he goes down at 6.30 or 8pm.

our current routine:
3 x day naps. The first is around 90 mins following a wake window of 2 hours - nap #2 90 mins after a wake window of 3 hours - nap #3 30-40 mins after a wake window of 3 hours. Bedtime after another 2.5-3hrs - dinner (he’s a good eater), story, bath, milk, bed. The last wake window is always a challenge as he is absolutely shattered but I try and stretch him until at least 6pm every day.

he falls asleep on the boob, gets transferred to his cot and then gives us his best stretch of around 2 hours. After this it’s carnage, usually up screaming every 40 mins - 1.5 hours, won’t be consoled by dad, sometimes drifts off with me patting and shhing but often needs to latch back on and fall asleep on me.

he won’t have a dummy and doesn’t sleep any better when co sleeping.

any advice would be gratefully received! If I could get down to 2/3 wakeups a night I would feel like a new woman!

This is absolutely a sleep association problem.

We all go through sleep cycles and wake up very slightly between sleep cycles. As adults, we aren’t even aware of this, we just turn over and fall back asleep. Your son however has developed a sleep association whereby boob=fall asleep. So he can’t get back to sleep between cycles without BF. You need to teach him, somehow, that he can fall back asleep without BF. To do this he needs to learn to fall asleep in the first place without BF, ie self settle.

There are various ways of teaching this (methods of sleep training). Controlled crying/Ferber method is probably the quickest, often works in a few days, but involves a fair bit of crying. You can also look at gradual retreat or the No Cry Sleep Solution but be prepared for it to take ages (and there may be some crying despite the name!). There is also “shush pat” and “pick up put down” but I’m not a fan of these as I think they are confusing for the baby. Anyway look these up and see what you think could work for you.

I would suggest the first step before any sleep training is to try to up his feeds in the day, so you know he isn’t hungry at night. Also don’t try it if ill or badly teething. Get DH on board also.

Sleep training works best at the first nap of the day, and bedtime. Naps late in the day are tricky, I wouldn’t bother with any training method for these as it won’t work, but take him out in the buggy or similar.

Good luck.

@minipie thanks so much that makes complete sense. Going to do some research and get a plan together🤞

He's sleeping over 4 hours in the day with all those naps. He's as shattered as you are with all the broken nights - make that your extra motivation. Cut down on the naps (you may have to wake him after 30 mins) and as PP says break the cycle of only a boob helps him nod off.

Thank you @EwwSprouts ! Would you suggest to attempt to drop a nap completely or keep 3 x 30 ish mins?

I would try cutting the first nap shorter first. You might then find the second nap extends and then you can drop the third nap - but I wouldn’t bet on it if he struggles with sleep cycles.

Have you tried going longer than 2 hours for his first wake window? At that age mine did a 3-3-3 and only slept for an hour each nap but I found that when he finally got into this routine his night sleep was so much better. Rather than the 4 times a night waking he only woke once, twice at a push. Oh and I gave him a bottle everytime he woke in the night which he did drink so I think hunger played a small part. I'm not against feeding to sleep because some babies need it. But really, get his day sleep sorted and his night sleep will get better. Mine was such an awful sleeper from the start but he finally started sleeping through at 15 months. Also don't forget that 8 months is peak separation anxiety time so it could work itself out once he realises you are coming back 😊

I had this exact same problem OP (breast reliance to sleep, up God knows how many times a night, and an exhausted baby during the day).

I ended up paying for a sleep consultant when he was 9 months old as I was so broken. She saved me!

Please PM me if you want to talk about it with someone who’s been here and survived.

Too much day sleep.
Hasn't learned to fall asleep so can't resettle in the night.

I'd keep the first nap after 2 hours but wake after 45 minutes. 1.5-2 hours is great for the lunch time nap. Then keep the last nap a 20 minute max cat nap just to get through til bedtime.

I'd move the breastfeed to earlier in the evening routine eg do teeth brush and stories after milk.
Add in some sleep cues like special bedtime music, comfort toys, white noise.

I've always used pick up/put down with my own babies and every other baby I've nannied/childminded (loads!) and found that works best.
Cuddle baby til sleepy but put them down awake and pat/shush/jiggle in the cot.
If they get upset then pick them up and calm them, but put them down as soon as they're calm and continue patting in the cot. Repeat as many times as needed.
Once they can fall asleep in the cot with assistance, you can gradually reduce the amount of help.
There are probably quicker methods but I'm too soft not to comfort a baby or to leave them alone 😂

Also I'd only feed twice a night at this age, once before you go to bed at 10/11 (if you can do this feed without waking the baby even better - if you can go to bed early and dad does this as a bottle feed even best). Once at 3ish with the aim that this feed gets pushed later.
Any wakes in between dad goes in to resettle.

thank you all so much!
@LondonLady1980 I’ll message you!

Currently trying to work out how to access my messages on the App 🤣

I would work towards two naps but definitely get them shorter first. I've just remembered, if you drive does your DS fall asleep in the car? A bit more of that for a couple of weeks might help break the need of the boob to sleep. Not saying drive in endless circles. Two or three times a week when would be afternoon nap get in the car and drive to friend/park/supermarket. You might have to then sit in the car so your DS gets 30 mins and then wake him when you get out.

Far too much day sleep, he doesn't have enough sleep pressure to get him through longer stretches. I'd only allow one nap over 30 min, keep the other two 30 mins or less. In fact, try the final nap only 10 mins. Then you can drop that one once he can go to two naps. He'll struggling initially as he's tired from the night wakes, but should adjust once he has less night wakes.
See if you can settle at bedtime not on the boob, do a feed before the bath, then settle in the cot with whatever assistance needed like bum pats or singing. Then you could work towards him falling asleep independently at bedtime - "pick up put down" method worked well for us once baby was falling asleep in the cot, rather than boob.

Oh and I wouldn't personally worry how the naps happen. My baby naturally does shorter naps in the buggy, so that might be easier for the shorter naps.

Thanks so much everyone. Over the past week we have got him used to falling asleep without feeding and his night sleep has improved loads - he goes to sleep independently and wakes 2-3 times instead of 6+! Now to adjust day time naps 🤞🤞

Great progress in a week! Well done.