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Sleep

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Original poster

A question about pick up/put down and night feeds

24 replies

PiperG · 29/05/2008 16:16

I'm bracing myself to start pick up/put down with my 6 month old DS to try to get him to wake less frequently at night. Currently he goes to bed in his cot at 7.30 and then usually wakes every hour till 10 or 11, then maybe does 2 hour stretches thereafter. Every time he wakes I feed him, as this has been the only way I have ever been able to get him to go back to sleep. Even though he only feeds for a few mins at a time usually, I'm guessing he is probably taking in quite a lot of calories at night, and I'm worried that when I start pick up/put down he's going to really rebel because he's actually hungry. What should I do about this - begin by only doing pick up/put down if he wakes after eg an hour, but let him have a feed after eg 2 hours? I'm a bit stumped ... I really want this pick up/put down to work, and I don't want to mess it up by having a baby refusing to go to sleep because he's actually hungry. I'm not sure if the Baby Whisperer says anything about this in her book - maybe I have missed it.

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CarGirl · 29/05/2008 16:20

I think you just have to go for it probably. How does he go to sleep - actually falling asleep on the breast (day and night) or goes down wide awake in the cot then puts himself to sleep?

MrsBadger · 29/05/2008 16:26

I found NCSS much more use than the BW

DH and I took turns - if he couldn't settle her in 20min by rocking/singing then we guessed she was really hungry and I took over

Nursejo · 29/05/2008 17:00

Firstly,you have given him a "sleep prop", ie. feeding him until he either falls asleep or gets drowsy.This will be hard for him to understand that you are "changing the rules".If possible after he has a big feed at 7.00-7.30pm,make sure he is awake when he goes down,and get your partner or someone else to go to him when he cries between 7.30pm and 10.30pm,you didnt say if you were BF or FF'ing ? Either way he will associate/smell milk with you.If it has to be you then make sure you are well covered up.If you can try to settle him without turning lights on,or picking up,if he refuses to settle pick him up,say Ssshhh to him,try not to make eye contact,put him down quickly and continue to do this each time.At 10.30pm you can feed him,and try to do this without a full light on.Above all wait 3 hours between feeds before you feed him again.I believe the BW picks them up sometimes over 100 times,but does not feed them,before they are due.He'll learn to take bigger feeds,and realise its pointless to wake up in between,although this make take 3-5 days.If you prepare yourself for a hellish week,you should find you'll retrain him,and get some peaceful evenings in the long run.HTH

Original poster

PiperG · 29/05/2008 19:37

Thanks Nursejo. Will aim to make him wait 3 hours before feeding (I'm breastfeeding). He used to go for 3 between feeds at night, but somewhere around 4 months his sleep went haywire ...
CarGirl, he is never awake when I put him in the cot, i think that is really the problem! He has no idea how to fall asleep unless he is on my boob ...
MrsBadger, I've got the NCSS too, but can't quite summon the energy to formulate a sleep plan as she suggests. I think fairly drastic action is required with my LO anyway as he has never been able to go to sleep on his own - was a very colicky baby who slept in sling or on my tummy for first 3 months of his life!

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CarGirl · 29/05/2008 19:42

If he is never awake then I suggest you start there before attacking the nights. Start in the daytime always waking him up and then putting down in the cot awake. Once you achieve this for day naps and then going to bed in the evening then tackle the nights. At the moment he has no clue how to put himself to sleep so I think it's too much to expect him to do it at night - it is far easier to cope with him crying etc during the day whilst you crack that aspect IMO.

Nursejo · 29/05/2008 22:38

Yes I agree with CarGirl,tackle this first.Dont be tempted to "provide" anything that he may see as a "prop" such as Rocking to sleep,Singing,Rocking Cradle or Swings etc. all may help in the short term,but inevitably all of those things will have to change and then.....problems again.Simply lay him down,swaddle him with a sheet,leave his arms out if he hates being too swaddled. Make sure his cot/Moses Basket etc. is somewhere quiet.You can pat his back to soothe him but dont do it for too long as it might relax him too much and send him to sleep.Then leave him to it.If he keeps stirring,just go in and reassure him with a soft voice,just for a couple of minutes then leave him to it.Some people leave it an extra minute each time before returning to them:Sleep Training/Controlled Crying Techniques.It may not happen for a few days but he will learn if you provide a "routine" that he'll learn to recognise,and eventually he'll fall asleep all by himself.Once hes able to do that then start the same thing at night. Good Luck.

hillbilly · 30/05/2008 08:46

I used PU/PD with my dd when she was 7 months and began by only working on her daytime naps so we didn't have to deal with nightime crying. It worked so well after 3/4 days that we did not really have to implement it at night too much as she very quickly learned how to settle herself back to sleep.

Good luck!

MrsBadger · 30/05/2008 09:20

re NCSS: did need a bit of effort to formulate a plan but once we had one it really improved.

Contrary to Nursejo's suggestion we introduced a 'sleep prop' in the form of a blankie in the hope that dd would eventually use it to settle herself without (and this is the clincher) needing dh or me there.

And, slowly but surely, it is working - we can now put her in the cot awake (with blankie) for naps, and rather than feeding/rocking till she is fast asleep at night we now put her down as her breathing starts to slow and she falls asleep by herself. She's also started resettling herself at night - we hear a yelp over the alarm but nothing more, so presumably blankie is doing its job.

Baby steps, baby steps...

CarGirl · 30/05/2008 09:22

I'd say a sleep prop is fine in the form of a toy or blankie (mine all have them and is great reassurance when they had to go to childcare/sleep in different places etc) but that is very different to you providing them with the sleep prop of rocking/singing etc.

MrsBadger · 30/05/2008 09:39

I know cargirl, hence the wink...

CarGirl · 30/05/2008 10:20

only problem is one of them is nearly 6 and would still like to take her wretched prop with her everywhere............it'll be going on honeymoon with her........

Huge word of advice buy 3 identical props....

Habbibu · 30/05/2008 10:24

We patted dd to sleep, and then to just relaxed, then just hand-on to sleep, etc - worked very well for us, and she goes to sleep just fine on her own, so don't get too hung up on the "rules" from one book - they can be useful springboards from which to work out what suits your baby and you best, but they're not The Law.

Nursejo · 30/05/2008 10:43

I agree MrsBadger and CarGirl..... My DS and DD! had a Dummy and DD2 has her thumb and a "taggie" blanket.These I obviously agree with.

But in terms of practicality if you start rocking/singing etc,can you see yourself doing when your "LO" weighs 18lb!!! or you are going on a long awaited night out and have to try and fit in your singing/rocking routine before you go as no-one can do it like Mummy does it!!

IMO you should do whatever feels right and whatever gets you through these early months,but if someone asks advice,you can always try to give them the benefit of your or other mums experience and try not to start anything that you may have to change later.

CarGirl · 30/05/2008 10:51

Having had one dummy addict, 2 thumb suckers and 1 finger sucker - I'd actually go for the dummy every time - at least she threw them in the bin before her 5th birthday!!!!

I seem to spend my life saying "thumbs out" to the middle two.

MrsTittleMouse · 30/05/2008 10:57

The thing that we tried was for DH to give formula at night. It let us know whether DD really was hungry, or whether she wanted the comfort of BFing. Obviously it only works if your DS is willing to drink from a bottle! But it gave us the confidence to know that she could go through for longer without food and it was then that we started "sleep training".

MrsBadger · 30/05/2008 11:02

it's strange how these things go though - dd recently stopped wanting to be fed to sleep which foxed me completely as it was the only way I knew to do it...

MrsTittleMouse · 30/05/2008 11:08

MrsBadger - that was the biggest problem that I had with the BW. DD was a dreadful sleeper, but would naturally get really drowsy on the breast. And the BW implied that it was lazy to let her fall asleep then, I was supposed to wake her up for "activity". But that was fighting against her biology!

MrsBadger · 30/05/2008 11:11

oh yes - E.A.S.Y. was shite for us and dd

we developed AH-YES - start with them Awake and Happy, let them play while you have some You time, then when they get hungry let them Eat till they Sleep...

wasabipeanut · 30/05/2008 11:15

I have to say that whilst I think that BW is a reasonable point of reference (and the shush patting worked for us with our velcro ds) the whole "do not feed them" line I think is a bit harsh.

A couple of weeks ago now nearly 9mo ds started waking at about 4ish. First night I tried not to feed then gave in after water and cuddles didn't resettle him. He went straight back to sleep. We fed the next 3 nights and I started panicking thinking "oh no we've created a habit and he will never stop waking" and the next night he was fine and has been sleeping through again since.

He was having a growth spurt and hungry. I fed him. Everything was fine.

Next time it happens I will happily feed him and not flap!

MrsTittleMouse · 30/05/2008 11:16

Glad that I'm not alone.
I never did find the You time... I was too grumpy from reading baby books that told me to sleep when the baby sleeps - she doesn't!.

wasabipeanut · 30/05/2008 11:17

Yeah the Y elduded me as well!

weasle · 30/05/2008 11:27

all of this is very familiar reading. i struggled with ds1 with the baby whisperer but the EASY did not work. more like EAES etc.
ds2 is like yours piperG - glued to me for 3 months, then a bit better at sleeping for a couple of weeks then at 4 months terrible, waking every hr or 2 all night.

NCSS is working for us, slowly. The lovey prop has def worked. have also cheated as bought an amby hammock, which i know will probably be hard to get him out of, but has brought much needed respite for now. he now sleeps for one 4-5 hour chunk each night. I can occas hear him murmuring at the 50 minute mark, but 2/3 times he will self settle (but not last night...). As you say Mrs Badger, baby steps!

weasle · 30/05/2008 11:28

oh, ds2 is 5.5 months

X-posts, but exactly, no Y in EASY for us! lots of E though!

Original poster

PiperG · 30/05/2008 20:35

Thanks all; I have revised my original plan to start the pick up put down tonight, and am going to try it for daytime naps first. That makes so much sense - he's a dreadful sleeper in the day too, doing half an hour at most,and I think if I could get the daytime naps sorted it might help everything else along a bit. So now that I have moved him from his Amby into the big cot I am going to try to put him down awake all swaddled up as he likes, and do the picking up/putting down until he gives in to the sleep ....I hope! Wish me luck

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