9 week old sleeping 2 hour or less stretches at night - please help!

[SassyPeachShark]

My 9 week old baby (9 weeks tomorrow technically) won’t sleep longer than a 2 hour stretch at night in his cot - if that.

usually he has a 2 hour stint first thing (goes down for the night between 8-9 30pm) almost on the dot, then proceeds to wake throughout the night pretty much constantly. I know he’ll want to feed but after the initial couple of hours, it’ll take me about an hour to put him back down and he usually feeds to sleep (during the day too but has always done so and I can’t keep him awake, he’s a booby boy) but will wake within 20-30 minutes for the rest of the night. I usually have to give in and co sleep from about 4-5am when the exhaustion hits the worst and I can’t keep going any longer. I don’t want to co sleep but feel I have little choice if I want to remain sane.

i guess I’m looking for advice / others experiences and know I’m not alone - I’m reading all the time about putting newborns down drowsy but awake and that if this isn’t done they will never sleep longer until they’re toddlers but on the other hand being told by medical professionals that you can’t hold your baby too much and that it won’t create bad habits. I have tried a bit but don’t really know how to put him down drowsy but awake properly without upsetting him, he’s usually either too awake or starts crying. Most of the time he falls asleep feeding anyway but again I hear this is bad but feel panicked because I can’t stop him from falling asleep on the boob ever. I’ve tried tickling him, talking, singing but nothing works if anything it puts him to sleep quicker.

he’s gaining weight well and having plenty of wet and dirty nappies so I assume he’s full after feeds.

Important to understand that it is impossible to assess if a baby is getting 'enough'. There's no such thing as a 'full feed'.

Bf-ing is not like ff-ing. There is no regular pattern. In warmer weather babies need more frequent bf feeds to stay hydrated. Before a growth spurt they feed more frequently as this makes your supply increase, ensuring they get the nutrition they need.

It might perhaps help you to read resources on bf-ing so you are confident in the processes going on.

It is driving me mad lol! I can’t believe people actually manage this with newborns??

Thank you I needed to hear that. It’s so confusing - on the one hand you have people saying not to worry about sleep training and such but on the other hand you have people and even stupid books telling you you need to start “gentle sleep training” like awake but drowsy etc. It drives me insane and has me questioning everything

Our bed unfortunately has a little bit that pops out all around so you can’t put anything flush up against the mattress if that makes sense.

he does unlatch but usually once he’s fallen asleep, sometimes he just stops sucking where he’s asleep and his mouth will just be open but most of the time he pulls himself off but is asleep

Don’t read the books, usually bullshit.

feeding to sleep is normal, we are mammals!

co sleep from first wake, usually was midnight for me (3 dc) co sleeping saved me every time. I love love co sleeping (didn’t plan to do it but it just worked)

Yes exactly, give it a few minutes for each settling step (putting dummy back in, patting etc) but if he’s not going back to sleep then of course feed.

Babies like humans need a certain amount of calories (milk) during the day. The idea is that you’re trying to give them as much milk (calories) as possible during the day rather than through the night. it’s also good to give their tummies a break from feeding as gas and general discomfort from constantly digesting milk can also be a reason they wake up.

I forgot to mention that I express milk and my husband or I give him a bottle before his long stretch of sleep so I know that he’s had a good feed.

Both my babies have been breastfed and in 70th - 90th percentile for weight so I’ve been confident they’re not starving by sleeping longer stretches during the night!

I always very arrogantly said I would never ever co sleep. Baby #3 humbled me and was in our bed for 8 months. He would not have slept ever (or I!) otherwise. Life got significantly easier when I gave in and accepted he just needed to be near us

My DD used to "startle" herself awake frequently through the night, maybe every 30 mins. Even when swaddled. I then had to feed and comfort her back to sleep. She had awful reflux so it would always end in us having to change her sleepsuit, my clothes and bedding etc. absolutely exhausting. I think she got to about 10 -12 weeks old and suddenly the startling awake just stopped, tho the reflux continued. I found this with many things with newborns. Just as you think "this is it now", the pattern changes. I clearly remember the first time she slept a couple of hours straight through.... I ended up waking her up because I was so worried something bad had happened! During the worst of it my mum ended up staying overnight with me in our bed. OH slept in the spare room. With mum helping I got a few more hours which saved my sanity.

We finally switched to a prescription only formula once the Drs accepted her reflux was actually CMPA and that solved the rest of our sleep problem. Once she was given a bottle before bed she'd sleep solidly for 4-5 hours at a time consistently. One of my friends combi fed for this reason. Breast during the day, bottle at night.

This is normal I’m afraid. Doesn’t make it easier. Ignore the “drowsy but awake” and most other stuff you read about sleep. Babies like to be near their mums (and the boobs), it’s natural. It’s biological that they fall asleep on the boob, it’s where they’re supposed to fall asleep! I recommend reading “the womanly art of breastfeeding” to understand what a baby needs and how breastfeeding actually makes mothering easier. Learn how to co sleep safely. Lean into this season - it’s the only way to get through it! You and your baby are biologically driven to be close, including to sleep.

Thank you, this gives me hope!

we went doctors yesterday as he keeps being sick and his tummy seems to be bothering him (wind and painful poos) and they think ether CMPA or reflux so told me to change diet and try gaviscon. Bit nervous to though

Thank you, I’ll check that out. That’s such a relief to hear they are supposed to fall asleep at noon as people make it sounds that’s not the case!

As an update, we were starting to get between 2-6 hour stretches at night for a few nights, then it all went to crap and now we’re at 11.5 weeks and waking after 2 hours in the beginning of the night, feeding back to sleep, then waking every 20 minutes for the rest of the night. It usually takes 1-2 hours to feed and settle him back to sleep after each wake up. I don’t sleep until 3/4/5am when I climb into bed and co sleep for a few hours (during which DS feeds constantly, the second my boob drops out of his mouth because he falls asleep he start rooting and wakes himself until he gets it again) then DH takes him for 2 hours so I can get some actual sleep. I’ve never been so desperate for some advice / something to work.

surely this can’t carry on

You can’t know how much milk a baby gets because they keep on sucking regardless. I thought my daughter was getting enough but apparently as I was tired by evening there was not enough milk, I found that giving a bottle of formula at bedtime gave me much better sleep and plenty of breast milk in the morning.Hope things improve for yo7.

And using a bottle at night did not reduce my breast milk production.

It can't carry on forever, and won't, but you are only a few weeks in still. It's incredibly early days.

I'd persist with seeing if it's reflux/tummy issues/allergies, but equally you might just have a rubbish sleeper.

I can't give you advice because my child woke hourly for an entire year (and was a rubbish sleeper before and after this) and nothing I tried worked, but I am a veteran of exhaustion, so do have sympathy for you.

I put a lot of blame on people that mislead many mums into thinking sleep is longest and it will always improve, when it can be very up and down. They all get there eventually, but it often takes a long time. Sometimes babies sleep well as newborns and badly as toddlers. Sometimes parents think sleep is solved, for their child to start waking every half an hour at a year old. Whatever happens, it won't stay the same forever. You've just kind of got to roll with it in the meantime and snatch sleep where you can.

It’s so hard I honestly don’t understand how people have babies who sleep through the entire night, it feels impossible

then you have people talking about sleep training their babies and not feeding to sleep but no official guidance to look at I feel completely on my own with it

Im really struggling

Thanks but I think my milk is fine, how did you find out you didn’t have enough? If you feed in demand I thought you’d just produce what baby needs and if milk stopped flowing baby would get fussy/annoyed but mine I can see milk flowing out the side when he starts to let go

If its super bad at the moment I would feed baby then give them to your other half to settle if they don't feed to sleep. How long are they feeding for? It definitely won't be more than 20 minutes, I always unlatched at that point. If they still root I'd offer the other side for another 20 max. Then pass to my DH to settle if they were still awake.

Will they not take a dummy? I wish my 9mo did, my older two both did (both breastfed too) and I think it helped a lot. My youngest is our worst sleeper and we are similarly really struggling now 9 months in such that Im going to buy some bigger size dummies and try him with a variety in case he's changed his mind now he's bigger.

I had this for 6 months! I thought I was going to die from exhaustion. In hindsight, I don’t think I was producing enough milk. He wasn’t drinking enough to see him longer than 2 hours. I wish I’d have switched for formula earlier. That seemed to sort it out

I know it feels never ending but it isn’t. I breastfed two and they are 9 and 14 now. With DS1 at 8/9 weeks I thought he would never ever sleep. I cannot wake him up in the summer holidays.
How to get through it:

• your baby is learning a skill. How to sleep for long stretches. It is not a skill they can master overnight. It takes a while, months and they learn different parts of it as they go along. Falling asleep, staying asleep, falling back to sleep, each of these is an independent skill, and then doing so on one’s own, doing so in a room without anyone, each of these is an independent skill.
• Also people lie. And most books are not written about breastfed babies. I know VERY few breastfed babies who were sleeping 4-5 hour stretches.
• Later I realised some mums meant, yes they wake up every 30 mins but I don’t have to feed them as ‘sleeping through’.

I used the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Gently taught him how not to fall asleep on the boob (if a warm loving person was giving you a warm drink while cuddling you, you too would fall asleep, wouldn’t you?).
Then slowly he started connecting sleep cycles.
Fixed bedtime routine, massage, bath, story and feed.

Stayed in the dark between 7-7 so DH and I would take turns to be upstairs. This set his circadian rhythm. Minimal interaction.
Within a week or so of this he would wake every 2 hours or so but he would go back to sleep. So his day/night was sorted.
Regular naps in the day time and if he only slept on me or needed a contact nap so be it.
Used the Pantley Pull Off method.
Also Co-slept with both till they were 8 months. Then moved them into a cot next to me. Then to a cot in our room. And finally by a year to their own room. I didn’t rush the process.

Breastfed babies need to feed little and often. That’s how your supply is stimulated. This is the biological norm. I remember both my MIL and my mum telling me that I was doing a great job, that this was utterly normal, and I was a superstar. So now I am saying it to you. This is biologically normal, you are amazing and doing a great job. Your baby is absolutely normal and doing what they are supposed to be doing.

Finally, this will sleep like a mad thing to you now but sleep is a LONG game. I had friends who vigorously sleep trained at 6 months. By 2.5 their kids were up and down and then at 5 they were having to lie with them, and then at 6/7 getting them to sleep before 9 pm was a struggle. I need a wee, poo, drink of water.
So what I taught my kids was that bed and bedtime was something nice. They have both gone to sleep/bed with no protest for years. Even as big kids, they have a bath, teeth, read and lights off. It is not a battleground.
I know this seems a very long way away when you are collapsing with exhaustion but it will get better, I promise.

And yes sleep cycles will change with every single developmental leap.
He is falling asleep with the boob in his mouth so he’s using you as a dummy. So when it falls out, he’s waking up startled and looking for you/your boob.

Options:

• unlatch him before he falls asleep and pat him to sleep. This awake but drowsy thing is something I never managed but it is apparently possible.
• but I did quickly withdraw my nipple as he was falling asleep and then patted him. So he didn’t fall asleep with the nipple in his mouth. So when he woke up I would pat at first to see if that helped to connect the sleep cycle (every 40-45 mins) and if he fussed THEN I would offer the boob.

I only began to not offer the boob between 10-2 and then stretched out to 10-4 once weaning was firmly established.

I feel for you. This is nothing you are doing wrong, you either have a sleeper or you don’t. I had one of each and they were treated the same! Have you got a breastfeeding group local to you? They are great for advice not just on latch etc but on managing sleep etc. As well as being a place of support for you. Babies cluster feed at night to build supply so it could be baby trying to improve milk stores. Could also be baby uncomfortable and sucking for comfort. Have you tried a dummy again? Sometimes they accept them later when they rejected them as newborns. As they get older they should feed quicker and settle quicker even if they wake just as frequently, so when people say they fed every 2 hours for the first year, that doesn’t mean it won’t get better than it is now.

Oh this bit is SO hard, I really feel for you. Dd1 was like this. Would not nap in the day other than while feeding, and nights were horrendous. I tried everything, constantly second guessed myself and worried I was causing lifelong sleep habits.

What eventually worked for me was teaching her, step by slow slow step, to take a dummy. I started in the daytime, fed her to sleep lying in bed, then when she was fully asleep, I unlatched her and held the dummy on her mouth until she started sucking it. I stayed in a cosleeping position for her whole nap.

Eventually, I moved to settling her like that and being able to slide off the bed during her naps, and then to her taking the dummy whilst not quite fully asleep etc. Months in, I could put her down to sleep, day or night fully awake, with her dummy. Total game changer - we finally had a way to settle her.

She still couldn't nap anywhere except in the cot, and still 10 years on finds it hard to settle to sleep, but she has slept through for years and years and years and now loves a lie in!

Really hope you find something that works. In the meantime, beg for help from friends or family, get them to have baby while you nap in the day or to do the start of the night or the early morning so you can sleep. Sleep deprivation is an absolute killer and it's really hard to think clearly about what to try next whilst you're so exhausted.

You can know, input = output. Lots of wet & dirty nappies and good weight gain means they are getting enough. Also a ‘full’ baby will unlatch and fall off the nipple. Fussing and constant feeding in the evening is normal, it doesn’t mean you’ve run out of milk, you never run out of milk it’s literally made on demand as baby is feeding. Giving a bottle of formula means baby is (probably overly*) full of a milk that’s hard to digest so they don’t feel hungry for a while, and yes this will impact your milk supply as your body needs the signals that baby feeding all evening and through the night to stimulate milk production the next day.

*it’s very easy to over feed with formula unless you are doing paced feeding.

Thank you everyone.

I guess I just fear sometimes that it won’t get better for months, but surely it’s got to even if we go back to 2 hourly wakings right?? At least I’ll get an hour here and there!

thanks for reassurance re milk. Baby is having plenty of wet and dirty nappies, and has moved up from the 25th centile to 50th since birth gaining weight better than expected. He always unlatches or falls asleep.

think I may just need to burn that cursed silly book that says week by week “baby should be sleeping at least 5 hours stretches by now” (at 8 weeks old…!) 🙃

We have tried a dummy, he only takes it if he’s really tired and not hungry and can sometimes be rocked to sleep (although rarely!). It’s very hit and miss.

im still holding out hope for the magic “one day my baby just slept4+ hours”, hopefully it comes. I’m happy to take what I can get at this point - we are having our first 3.5 hourly stretch in a couple weeks, so I’m slightly happy with that (definitely compared to the half hourly wakings for the past week!). I got about a solid 2 hours 😎