Please, please, please send me a magic cure - my 3 year old is still not asleep and this has been going on for months.

[HonorMatopoeia]

Dd1 is 3.4 and for the last 7 months has had a real issue going to sleep at night. She will sometimes be up till 11 pm.
She stands at the top of the stairs and cries that she 'needs you'. She whinges and cries till we either end up screaming at her, or until it exhausts her and she falls asleep.
This is knackering me now, I have her all day and all I want is a bit of time to relax in the evenings. Quite often though I'm going to bed before she is.She is also really hideous during the days as she's so tired.
So, what do I do? If I tried to sit in her room till she falls asleep (which I've tried) I'm still there at gone 10 and she goes to bed at 7:30. Any other ideas? Anyone else with a sleep refuser? Am I alone??!!

my dd is a little younger (she'll be 3 at the end of june), but similar. she just doesn't need much sleep, & if she has even a sniff of a nap is up all evening. i get very resentful about it... she's also a very light sleeper, & co-sleeps in our bed. i have to stay with her 'til she goes to sleep. i make sure she has tons & tons of exercise which exhausts her nicely.

HC, I feel your pain. I try to exhaust the child, I really do, infact my days are spent running round in an effort to do so! It seems to have no effect at all

it's knackering isn't it. and dd was up at 6.10 this morning too (normally we don't have early rising problems thank god). they're too big for sleep training aren't they (and i am too soft).

DD started doing this at a similar age.

We started doing a very orchestrated countdown to bed time.

ie "at the end of x programme we'll go upstairs to get your pyjamas on, then read you a story, then we'll do 10 elephants (i'll explain in a mo) and then it's time to sleep."

Then "x programme is nearly finished, when it's finished, we'll go upstairs to get your pyjamas on, then read you a story, then we'll do 10 elephants and then it's time to sleep."

etc etc.

So she knew and was prepared. 10 elephants was the final leaving the room countdown. We'd count up to ten, and that would be the cue to leave the room. But, it turned into 10 kisses, or, thinking of 10 different animals up to ten ie 1 elephant, 2 monkeys, 3 giraffes etc and DD would pick the animal or we'd take it in turns.

Sounds very convoluted, and it is I suppose, but it worked.

I fear they are. When I spoke to my HV about it she told me to try the staying in the room till they fall asleep thing, then move gradually away. It didn't work! I fell asleep in her room sat in a chair ans she went downstairs to tell Daddy that Mummy had fallen asleep

Ooo, VvQ I like the 10 countdown! Will be trying that tomorrow night

ha ha!

Oh Honor I couldn't read this and not post. You must be knackered, especially with haveing DD2 to think of too.

Have you tried constantly returning her to bed saying less and less each time (so no "reward" in the form of conversation)

eg.
1st time "Come on sweetheart, time for bed"
2nd time "Time for bed"
3rd time "Bed"
4th time onwards say nothing, just guide her back to bed

It might take 2765 returns the first night but apparently works if you stick with it.

BTW I had to laugh at the idea of you snoring away happily in the chair -DP does this regularly whilst "listening" to DD read

Hi Betty! [Truly knackered emoticon!] Yes, we're shattered here. We've been doing the return to bed thing for weeks, some nights it works, others (unfortunately the majority) it doesn't. Why doesn't she sleep? How can she survive on less sleep than me?!

Star chart? DS (nearly 4) really responds to these -its what helped him master potty/toilet training.

DP (yes, I've recruited DP for ideas )suggested moving her room around or changing it in some way, with her involvement, to make her interested in it and more likely to want to stay in it.

Is she sleepy at all? Maybe keep her up out of bed till later? Maybe she isn't tired enough at 7.30 and gets fed up lying in bed and starts fussing?
I try to guage ds 'sleepyness' as to when I pop him into actual bed. I sleep next to him - it at least keeps him in the bed - rather than up and down like a yoyo to the lounge. and sometimes if I put him into bed too early he talks and talks for ages and I get more and more wound up.

Another thought -Story tapes?

Yes, the return of the star chart may not be a bad idea. Story tapes were once enjoyed but she seems to have gone off them lately. Could try them again.
Perhaps I will try putting her to bed later. When would people suggest, she is still so young but I don't suppose she's getting any rest when I put her to bed at the moment is she?!

What time does she wake up in the mornings Honor?

Also, does she sleep solidly once asleep?

She wakes around 7 / 7:30 and we're lucky if she does sleep through.

oh dear, sounds like she just doesn't need much sleep then

In that case I would make her bedtime a little bit later (8ish?) in the hope she might be slightly more tired so more likely to settle when she does go to bed plus introduce a star chart with a reward for staying in her bed for x amount of nights.

Failing that, gaffer tape her to her bed

Yes, will laten (good new word that!) her bedtime and employ all the other stuff too. She will not beat me on this .
Nevermind, when she's a teenager begging to be left to lie in I will be there with an activity schedule and a foghorn. ha!

I look forward to those days too.

Mind you, my two tend to take it in turn to do the "I don't want to get up" routine on the days we have to leave the house early. Come weekends though they're both up with the sparrow's fart.

Ah yes, I feel for you there! I understand the sparrow's fart conundrum too