I am desperate and open to anything

[IvyWintersIsBack]

Please forgive any typos, I am on my phone.
If this isn't in the correct place please move it.
I am grateful for any advice or feedback because I do not know what to do now and am considering approaching my daughter's doctor, after it was recommended by a professional.
My daughter is two and she cannot sleep through the night.

I do not know if this is a common thing for some kids but I have five older children and this has never happened before. Almost everything I did with my elder children, I have done with her so I am stumped... I am so desperate to turn her into an independent sleeper who sleeps for longer stretches.
I might forget some information but am happy to answer any questions I forget to include in this post.
I don't live in the UK so some suggestions might be different, where medical intervention is concerned, but other than that, all other advice should be interchangeable.
She was born full term and was exclusively breastfed. She still nurses at naptime and bedtime.

She did/does cosleep, though has always had her own room.

She never spent a single night in a crib, though she had one, but has her own bed now and, whenever I put her to bed, that is where we begin the night. Though we always end up back in my bed.. Sigh.

She has a bedtime routine.

I removed all distractions at bedtime.

I try using soothing noise to mask the creaking and every-day noise made by some of my other kids, whose bedroomsrooms are on the same floor as hers. There isn't much noise to begin with but I tried it in case it could help.

She eats a full dinner, so I don't believe is going to bed hungry.

She eats a chewable antacid (suggested by another mom whose toddler had terrible acid reflux)

Her room temperature is comfortable and she has a ceiling fan. We have central a/c and heating so she isn't too hot or cold and the house temp stays pretty consistent.

Her sleepwear is typically a plain T-shirt which she is comfortable with.

She has a bamboo memory foam mattress so it is comfortable and not too hard or soft.

Please, what am i doing wrong.

She has never slept through the night. Not once. She has never slept the entire night in her own room because we get so exhaused either my husband or I just give up and put her in our bed and she snuggles up on a boob.
She still wakes every two hours like clock work whenever this happens, which is every single night. Ever since I began to suspect there was something the matter with her sleep struggle I have been keeping a very detailed diary.

We had enlisted an occupational therapist and consulted a sleep therapist and now it has been suggested she may have a chemical imbalance causing her sleep disturbance.

Has anyone experienced this and does anyone have ANY advice at all?

Or has anyone any experience with medical/metabolic issues causing sleep disturbance in their toddler?

Sorry this is so long.
Thanks in advance.

I’m sure some people will disagree but I have three children and none of them slept through the night when they were breastfed. My older two both started sleeping through the night within a month of being weaned at age two. My youngest is still only 14 months and still wakes multiple times per night because she falls asleep while nursing/feeding so naturally this is what she wants to do to settle again.

It sounds like you are considering a whole range of factors (and “chemical imbalance” is vague and non specific and I wouldn’t be pursuing anyway) without considering the obvious which is that the majority of 2yo are not still breastfed. If you want to change her sleep then you could try changing her sleep habits i.e. fully wean her or if you don’t want to do that then stop feeding her overnight or anywhere near sleep time. Some people argue that breastfeeding and sleep aren’t linked but in my experience the two are highly interlinked.

And by the way from my experience her behaviour is totally normal for a breastfed baby/toddler. I know lots and lots of BF 1-2yos (I am in a lot of NCT type circles 😂) and none of them sleep well. I don’t think you need to worry about her. If you wean her it will probably improve her sleep although it will likely get worse for a bit while she gets used to it.

I would LOVE to wean her. I did not want to EBF her. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we made it, but it was never my intent to EBF, she would just never take a bottle. Not even a pacifier. All my elder children had breastmilk from a bottle because my husband did a good share of the night wakings, but she would never take one.
The therapists we enlisted to help really helped move her weaning along. She used to come to me for EVERY single slight or instance of unhappiness or discontent. Six months ago, when we started with the therapists, she was still attached to me throughout the day. Now she only gets it at naptime and bedtime because it is literally the ONLY way to make her sleep. We even tried crying it out whenever she was over a year old. She screamed for 4 hours, then longer each time.
The therapist suggested a chemical imbalance because she thought maybe my daughter's serotonin levels were being interrupted some how. She said she only threw that out there because two of my kids have ADHD and, while it cannot be diagnosed to about 3, it is not uncommon in toddlers who go on to have adhd.
Thank you for your advice.

Thank you so much. I've never experienced this. Her Dr. Originally thought she needed services because at 19 months she wasn't interested in walking and once they came in, they sifted through every part of her development and literally every single aspect about her is apparently an issue. I don't love the broken sleep. I am seriously considering completely weaning her. That'll be a whole other thread, though, because she will NOT go quietly into tge night 😭

It's late here and she's awake. Dad is walking her around so i can write this without her screaming bloody murder because she's tired and wants to go to sleep while attached to me.
Will check back once she's settled.

I don’t understand though, you’re talking about EBF when she was a baby etc - it’s great you managed to do this! But now she’s two so all of that is kind of irrelevant. No two year old is “EBF” because they eat food as well. Bottles and pacifiers are not recommended at age two either for oral health. But she’s 2 so you can just stop breastfeeding her if you want to. You don’t have to give her bottles or dummies. Why is this something you haven’t considered doing? It’s normal for them to get a bit upset if they are used to being breastfed and then you stop. But you can do it gently and there’s all sorts of books on how to help with the transition etc. You’re saying it’s the only way to get her to sleep which also implies it is also at the root of her sleep problems. She is relying on breastfeeding to sleep and through the night. She doesn’t get breastfed during the day, only the nighttime. Makes total sense for her to therefore wake through the night for it.

Personally I would not be trusting a therapist who suggests a two year olds serotonin levels are “imbalanced” whatever that means, because they are strong willed and get upset when they are being day weaned. It doesn’t mean she has adhd. I’m a psychologist by the way.

Shes not EBF. She only nurses to sleep and at naptime now... She isn't ebf anymore. Ebf want never my intention. I only mentioned it because i think it might have created this cycle but I'm not sure. And i would pay her to take a pacifier. I'd do anything for her to soothe using something other than me.
She doesn't even get anything beneficial from nursing. Therapist calls it non-nutritive.

Ugh sorry for all the dang typos

This isn't what you want to hear but can you and dh maybe block off a week where you just bite the bullet no matter how many hours it takes? I wish to God I'd nipped thos in the bud at 2. Sleep deprivation is absolutely hell.

Nutritionally 2 year olds still get a decent amount from breastfeeding - by definition it cannot be non-nutritive unless she is dry feeding and not getting any milk. Breastmilk is highly nutritious just like cows milk is. It doesn’t mean you can’t stop though. it’s just become a habit for her which is totally normal. Both of my two year olds were like this if I didn’t settle them myself.

who is this “therapist” and what are their qualifications? They sound like the wrong person to be speaking to about this issue which is essentially a sleep habit where she’s relying on breastfeeding to sleep which is a) normal and b) not a therapeutic issue. What are your other concerns about her developmentally? Is an actual medical paediatrician raising concerns or only this therapist?

That is literally the next thing we have been discussing. Whenever i'm Not here she will lay in with him and sleep but ONLY after he has literally walked her around til she fell asleep...
Thanks so much for the all the advice and suggestions ladies. I am kicking myself for letting it continue on this long and bow i'm so annoyed with myself

Go thanks so much your advice has actually really surprised me, in a good way. The therapist was brought in by her doctor because her doctor was not happy she wasn't walking or trying to by 19 months. And it went from there. She said she was an occupational therapist. She'd come to the house and do play therapy with her, things like that. She was tge one who then brought in the other therapist who really put the pressure on for us to stop caving at every instance - stop nursing her whenever she wabted it, stop walking her around at all hours so she'd fall asleep.

Still around, just trying to settle her thanks again and sorry for typos.
All advice appreciated and welcome

It's rough. My now 4.5yo never slept through and still occasionally wakes. I was still feeding to sleep when she turned 3 but I had to stop when I found out I was pregnant and it was too painful.
She had low vitamin d which in turn caused low iron which had a huge impact on sleep. I had to push for a blood test to confirm. Ask for adenoids to be checked. Find a registered osteopath. Try reflexology. Lavender and magnesium spray before bed.
These things all helped (some short term, some game changers) also never took a bottle or dummy and had horrendous reflux as a baby.

It’s possible that they are right in saying you maybe shouldn’t cave into all her demands/wants - 2yos definitely need boundaries for sure! And they may be able to help give you advice on how to do that. But the comment about serotonin imbalance has me concerned because this kind of observation is not rooted in any science even though it makes it sound like it is. Your DDs behaviour might be problematic (ie causing you all to be sleep deprived) but that doesn’t mean it’s abnormal. I would definitely suggest just totally (gently) weaning her if breastfeeding is no longer working for you as a family which it sounds like it isn’t. At the same time you can work on instilling some more sustainable sleep habits for her (my two year old also wanted my husband to rock her to sleep when I stopped breastfeeding but we worked on stopping that and her falling asleep in her bed instead as rocking a 2yo is not particularly practical or sustainable).

Are the other developmental concerns now resolved?

I would be careful spending more money on osteopaths and reflexology for a 2yo when a) there is no clinical evidence to suggest either of these is effective and b) the strong sleep habit of breastfeeding to sleep and through the night is still in place. Sorry I don’t mean to be negative and I know you’re just sharing your experience but sleep associations are strong so at this point it all sounds behavioural rather than medical.

I've been there. Sleep deprivation brought me to my knees. I fell asleep at a stop light. It was absolutely living hell.

The occupational therapist is concerned about her speech. She doesn't say as many words as she should but i wasnt even concerned about that because i always thought, unless there ai some underlying issues, kids will talk at their own pace. And she does talk.
You (and the OT) were/are 100% correct saying i need to stop giving into her. Six months ago she came to me to nurse at least ten times a day, even though she eats meals and healthy snacks and drinks from a cup. I put a stop to it and she only nurses now at naptime and bedtime.
I cannot tell you how reassured your advice has made me.
I think fully weaning is a great idea. Now that i know it can segue into her sleeping linger by helping to make her less dependent upon me for sleep.

Sorry didn't fully answer your question. She is saying some words and can walk and run so no problems there.

@BigRenoLittleBudget yes and in my experience reflexology and osteopathy were positive reinforcements while we had the difficulty of weaning.
Sometimes alternative options can be useful tools.

We had similar so we put a single mattress on the floor next to the cot. Child in bed and 1 parent on the floor holding hands,through the slats of the cot until they fell asleep. We alternated so every second night you'd have free time . At first it took hours and hours, then a couple of hours, then a half an hour etc. After about 2 months we took the mattress away and just sat in a chair near the cot and read a story. Straight to sleep. The thing is although it takes hours some nights at least you are lying down and resting not walking the floor. We also took a little bottle of cool water in and after a while offer this if they'd been crying.. ( and secret hint if you lie on your side and hold your phone under the cot there's barely any light from it ( we used a night light anyway) , put on some headphones and you can watch whatever you want. Warning , arm does start to fall asleep from being held up holding hands after a while so bring in heaps of pillows to rest it on. Sometimes one of us would fall asleep in their and not wake up until the morning.
Hope that is of assistance, it's definitely worth a shot, though probably frowned on by the put them in their cot and ignore them crowd, though I'm not sure they are around anymore. Good luck