Sleep advice welcome - 8 month old first baby

[ChrissyFrances]

My 8 month old BB goes to bed at 6/6.30pm, wakes once 1-3am for a bottle then wakes 4.30/5am. That early is kinda brutal so any advice to change it to 6? He has 4 day naps 30/40 minutes max, he will not sleep longer. I tried dropping a nap thinking it would make him sleep longer. He is visibly tired after 2 hours of awake time.

We have tried putting him to bed later but he's so tired & stills wake up.

Are these signs for overtired & should I put him to bed earlier?

I would like a later lie in but ultimately I want him to have a good sleep regime.

He is 99th percentile for height & weight so does this have anything to do with his sleep?

I tried the huckleberry app but struggled with it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Is he napping too often? My 8mo has 2 x naps a day, bed at 7pm, wakes at 6ish and will often drop off for another hour if I put him into my bed when he wakes. We are going through a sleep regression at the moment + a cold virus so getting a few wake ups but before then he had pretty much dropped his night wakings except for a dummy / resettle.

What time are the naps and for how long?

At his age to maximise night time sleep you probably want to look at the 2-3-4 schedule which if you want at 6am wake up would look something like:
6am wake
2 hours of awake time
8-9am nap
3 hours of awake time
12-2pm nap
4 hours of awake time
6pm bedtime

It’s also very much a thing that napping too early in the morning can cause a vicious circle where the nap is needed early because of the early wake but then they keep waking early because of the nap habit. So I don’t know when his first nap is at the moment but you really want to starve it off until 8am. May have to be done gradually though if he’s currently waking as early as 4.30.

4 naps is way too many at that age. you need to just spend a few days stretching awake time to get you to 3 naps.

We were down to 2 naps at 8 months, but a three nap day was something like:

07:30 wake
feed
breakfast
Nap 10:30 - 11
feed / lunch
nap 2:15 - 2:45
feed
nap 3: 4:45 - 5:15
feed / dinner
bed 7:30

(mine also missed the memo about long naps!)

His naps are usually after 2/2.5 hour wake time. I won't let him sleep earlier than 2 hours. He sleeps 30 minutes most naps like clockwork, occasionally it might be 40 minutes which is a rarity.

I have tried dropping a nap but it's still only 30 minute naps and he's then overtired.
I will try and do longer wake windows and see if that makes a difference. It's such a mindfield this sleep business for babies!!

This has been since the clocks have changed. He used to go down at 6pm and wake at 6pm and 4 naps in the day of 30 minutes.

4 naps is a lot for that age even if they are I my short, I think most babies are only on 2 by 8 months. I would try to stretch him to stay up slightly longer before a nap, by trying a change of scenery/activity/outdoor time when he gets towards the point where he starts to get a bit tired. See if you can push him to closer to the 2.5-3 hour mark between naps. Even if he stays on 30-40 minute naps this should bring him closer to having 3 naps instead of 4.

In terms of overnight sleep, he may only need 10.5 hours or so overnight. In which case you would need to gradually push bedtime later to achieve a later wake-up time. However I would focus on making one change at a time and allowing for a couple of weeks to see the results of any change.

Thank you.

I will extend his wake windows & if this doesn't help change his night time routine x

@ChrissyFrances how does he fall asleep initially? And for naps?
he's not linking cycles so his naps are short.
do you try to get him back to sleep when he wakes at the30 minute mark?

It is a huge adjustment when naps drop and takes some time to bed in but once he gets there, he will likely start napping longer too. Might just have a few early nights to start!

We were on two naps at this point and did 2.5hrs awake, 3 hours awake then 3.5hrs.

@BobbyDazzler11 his 1st nap is in his bed & the other 3 are in the car or on me. I live quite remotely so I time my trips vis nap time when I'm out, which is quite often.

I put him down last night at 5.30pm as he looked so tired last night & he slept straight till 5am so I will try that tonight.

So today has started

5am - wake

7am - nap - 40 mins, he was so tired , getting cranky I knew it was nap time.

10 am - he's napping on me just now he again was so he grouchy & looked exhausted, he went to sleep within minutes on me.

I have tried to put him back down when he wakes but he is not having it.

I should maybe give up the contact naps but I love them. I'm 39 & may not have another & this time will pass so quickly. Going back to work in March so will get him sleeping in his bed with every nap after the New Year.

There is nothing wrong with contact naps if it makes you and baby feel happy and safe.

By 8 months mine only really contact naps when he is ill (as he is now!) as he doesn’t get the same length of nap when on me, he is much heavier and wakes if I move. If he is down in his pram or cot he will usually stretch out and sleep for at least an hour.

Can you bring baby in bed with you when he wakes at 5? Give him a bottle if he needs one and cuddle up, he might fall back asleep? Then you can aim to combine his night time sleep with his first nap? Plus you get a bit more quality sleep?

@ChrissyFrances I do get it but it's hard to change issues at night if you don't want to change the day I'm afraid!