4 month sleep regression is ruining me

[yellowbelliedlilylivered]

I'm getting quite desperate with the sleep situation with my almost 6 month old and hoping someone can give me some advice.
DS slept well at night in next to me since he was born. Contact naps through the day (EBF and likes to stay latched - working on this but that's another story!). Used to be 2 wakes a night for feeds and straight back to sleep - amazing!

3 months hit and everything changed. Since then, he has been consistently waking in the night between 5 and 9 times, and I'm wrecked. He has to feed back to sleep each time if it's me getting him back down but DH can rock. We've tried different routines, earlier and later bedtimes, waking up at same time each day, completely going with the flow. Nothing helps. He seems pretty low sleep needs - wide awake after naps - but maybe I'm wrong?
We don't want to do any controlled crying but I'm open to pretty much anything else!

Rough routine:
8am Wake up
9.30 - 10.15 Nap #1
1 - 2 Nap #2
5.30 - 6 Nap #3
9pm Bath
9.15pm Feed and bed

Any suggestions for a knackered FTM? TIA!

Congratulations!
No suggestions, just wanted you to know it is normal and will phase out soon. I didn't sleep for about 8 weeks and it was shit as if just got used to waking every 3hr then he was every 70 mins. Awful
I relied on dp heavily at the weekends to avoid burnout

The next couple of months may be tough but once you're through it you should get a wee while before another nighttime issue (hopefully)

I wouldn't be doing any kind of CC at this age (or at all if you can avoid it) but certainly not at 4mo, he's too young
It's nothing to do with your daytime routine either. He will be going through a growth spurt

Thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate it. DS is nearly 6 months so it's been like this for almost 12 weeks. How long is a growth spurt!?

Every now and then we'll get a better night but DS is absolutely exhausted, crying and fighting to keep his eyes open for a good 1/1.5 hrs before bed e.g. if he's refused naps/had v short ones. Surely this isn't what's needed? I just can't work it out.

No advice, just sympathy 💐

DD is 4m and a terrible sleeper. People say it gets better but mine just keeps getting worse!

I see a few issues.

1. your baby can't get to sleep without parental support so they require this everytime they wake. No advice for this without controlled crying.
2. Your sleep schedule - if you total how long baby is a wake per day, it's a lot. Could be overtired rather than low sleep needs and it's causing the night wakes. It seems like such a long day for the age on 3 naps.

here is some 3 nap information from a group I am in.
There is a wide range of ‘normal’ wake times on 3 naps. For example at 5 months old anything from 8 hours (eg 1.75/2/2/2.25) to 9 hours (eg. 2/2.25/2.25/2.5) is common. Be guided by your baby’s mood, and how well they sleep.

Maxing out
Most babies reach a “maxed out” 3 nap schedule between 6 and 8 months old.

Our recommended maximum wake time on 3 naps is 9.5 hours. And many babies are ready to switch to 2 naps after reaching 9.25 hours.

You’ll gradually work your way up to something like one of these schedules:

2/2/2.5/2.75

2.25/2.25/2.5/2.5

2/2/2.5/3

For example, 2/2/2.5/3 might look like

Wake 7

Nap 1 9-10.15

Nap 2 12.15-1.15

Nap 3 3:45-4:30

Bedtime 7:30

Once you reach this maximum wake time, and start seeing problems, it’s time to look at the two nap schedule!

On a maxed out schedule we recommend capping naps at 3.5 hours total (Eg 1hr45, 1hr, 45 mins). Some babies will need naps capped at 3 hours to sleep well overnight. (Eg 1h30, 1hr, 30 mins)

@BobbyDazzler11 thanks so much for your reply that's really interesting and useful. I agree it feels like DS is awake a lot, but he refuses to sleep much during the day - he wakes up around 45 mins and won't be resettled. It's also confusing when a bit of research suggests that sleep needs vary wildly for this age and I don't know what to be aiming for.

In terms of accounting for shorter naps, do you think I could offset this at night? Schedule would look something like this:

8am Wake
9.45 - 10.30 Nap 1
12.45 - 1.30 Nap 2
4.00 - 4.30 Nap 3
7.30pm Bedtime

That looks good!!
we went through the short nap stage unfortunately but now that my little boy can settle himself , he can link cycles and sleep longer. It definitely does make routine abit harder for sure!

@BobbyDazzler11 Thank you so so much! Gonna give it a go starting tomorrow. Then hopefully he's a bit less grouchy overall and we can tackle the contact naps and constant latching in the least traumatic way possible..!

@yellowbelliedlilylivered I know you are against controlled crying but we did our own version we were comfortable with and it changed everything.

Ds use to fight to go to sleep being rocked and fed in the daytime. We only did the controlled for naps and falling asleep. Then when he woke in the night , we would then cosleep from that first wake. He gradually then stopped waking and calling out most nights and staying in his bed sleeping through.
He falls to sleep like an absolute dream, sing a song, say I love you and he cuddles his tedddies, gets comfy and drops off. No more fighting and crying like before. It's genuinely like he prefers it.

I don't think there's any trauma. He's not a robot and will still cry out for me now some nights if he needs and we always respond. So it's not a case of 'he knows no one is coming'

Also, it helps us know if something is wrong when he is fussy going down one day. Or there's genuine hunger, pain, not tired yet etc.

Each to their own but this version worked for us!

@BobbyDazzler11 I really don't like the idea of controlled crying and I think partially that's that I will find it really upsetting and difficult. That being said, I am very aware that contact napping and feeding to sleep feel like they're affecting my DS's quality of sleep at the moment, and I can't continue as things are for many more months. I've just handed over to DH as DS has been latched on the boob for an hour trying to go to sleep and fighting me - it's completely exhausting and this process went on for 4 hours last night.

If you don't mind me asking, how and when did you go about changing naps for your LO?

Have you tried a dummy? Can really help.

Push chair/pram naps in the day I also found useful as I didn’t have to feed or rock to sleep. Push out until fall asleep and leave pushchair in garden (ours is very secure or in house until they wake up.

But it’s the child not what you do. I’ve one who still wakes me repeatedly and he’s 6 and a 4 year who slept in 3 hour blocks from the moment she was born and by 9 months was only waking once a night unless she was ill. Eldest used to wake me every 45 mins for months.

@Autumn1990 thanks for your reply! I've tried a dummy on off for months and he just won't have it.

Pram naps and car naps are great but he wakes up immediately when the movement stops. I can't get anything done and certainly can't have a rest myself.

I hear what you're saying about the child. Just desperately hoping he grows out of it because I can't sustain this for much longer. He didn't sleep for longer than 45 minutes until 5am last night. I'm totally wrecked!

@yellowbelliedlilylivered we started at 5
months.

Definitely understand the cries are hard. But o told myself it was protest crying rather than in pain etc.
To be honest, he was crying a lot anyway trying to be rocked etc! So it was abit like ???

@BobbyDazzler11 Yeah he's definitely not having a good time anyway. Did you stay with your LO and try to soothe another way, or did you just return periodically?

Drop first nap and put to bed at 7.
9 is far too late. Mine is 4mths.

Sorry drop the last nap

@Kittybluecat thanks for your reply. He's always gone to bed later and woken up later as I have to go up with him until 6 months. We're planning on using the clocks going back to bring everything forward an hour.
We can't drop another nap and have him only be on 2 at 6 months. He'd never make it from 2pm till 7pm