Controlled crying success stories needed - please help

[Pinkjenny]

I am hoping that you can provide me with some support in respect of sleep training, I am really struggling with dd, 11mo.

She has slept with us since she was 4mo, after an illness. Historically, she has got into bed with us after starting the evening in her cot, and woke up to get in with us anywhere between 11pm and 2am.

Lately, I can't get her to settle in the evening for longer than an hour, before she wakes up, hysterically demanding to get up or get in our bed.

It is really starting to get me down. She doesn't just cry, she SCREAAAAAAAAAAAMS in pure temper.

I am worried that:

a) she'll cry for hours
b) I'm punishing her for something I started
c) she'll feel abandoned
d) it'll take weeks
e) she's actually feeling unwell and I'm letting her cry

Can anyone let me have their success stories with equally demanding babies? I am resorting to getting into bed at 9pm at the moment so she'll get in with me and go to sleep. Its really damaging my relationship with dh now too - we have no time together and I am constantly on pins, waiting for her to wake up.

Please help.

I have never done it myself but I believe the theory behind it is that they arent left crying for hours as you go in every couple of minutes or so building up the time. I also believe that if done properly it takes a few nights not weeks. People also say you will know the difference between an ill cry and other cry.

I have used cc to remove the dummy from my now 9 mo as he had started to wake all the time through the night looking for it.

I was like you scared he would cry for hours, but he didn't. He screamed in temper for a while and then went off to sleep having exhausted himself. You go in every few minutes, eventually getting longer and longer before going in. I was lucky and he went to sleep within half an hour each time.

It only took a few days, but he does still cry himself to sleep. You do get used to the different crys very quickly.

Our relationship has not changed (me and ds), probably got better as I get more sleep so I don't think he felt abandoned.

It is hard, and I will admit to cryting, but it is so worth it.

Hi. I'm so sorry you are going through this...it's really hard. I have two completely different children. With my ds, we did cc when he was 6 months old (he had been exclusively bf and cosleeping with us until then) and had complete success with it. Then, with my dd, I stopped the co-sleeping at a couple of months (couldn't get a wink with her in my bed) and tried the cc at around 6 months. It was fairly unsuccessful, despite my not only completely believing in the concept, but having had such success with my first that I had no problem with leaving her to cry. Unfortunately she just never really took to sleeping through the night. And in fact, she is now 5 and still wakes up with night terrors and nightmares (not the same thing) at least once a week and often several times a week. If she's agitated about something (don't even ask me how a 5 year old manages to get agitated about anything...but my dd does) she'll be up several times in a night, every night for weeks. I found it very difficult when she was a little little baby, but I very quickly learned the difference betweenl night terrors, nightmares and her just trying it on to get into my bed. And it became fairly clear by the time she was 2 or 3, that she actually preferred to sleep in her own bed and woudl only come into our bed long enough to be comforted and then wake me up to get me to take her back to her bed (luckily now I just make her go on her own). So....all of this is to say that controlled crying can work, but if your child has other issues going on, then be prepared for it to not work entirely successfully. You will not know what is what unless you truly manage to be strong and last a couple of days into the cc.
I found Dr. Ferber's book very useful and used a somewhat modified version of his system . I think that the theories behind teaching the child to put themselves back to sleep are very useful. However, I didn't feel a blanket application of exact time of leaving the child unattended made sense since children and their needs can be so different. I also had very little succes with the system for naps for either child. Ds just napped when he was tired and not when I wanted him too. At 7 he (and dh for that matter) still naps when he's tired whether or not it's convenient. While dd gave up naps before she was 2 and will almost never sleep during the day (takes after me!).
Good luck.

Thanks - to be honest the daytime nap schedule has never been something that she has stuck to, she sleeps when she is tired, generally around the same time. However, she spends two days a week with my mum and two days a week at nursery whilst I am at work, and I think she just falls asleep when she's tired, and tbh she cries before napping during the day as well, it just doesn't seem as hard then.

I do know the difference between her cries, and, last night for example, I knew there was nothing wrong with her, she's just crying in temper, but there's always a nagging doubt...

The longest I've ever got to when listening to her cry is about 5 minutes, and she gets herself into such a state, its hard to leave her that long! Gina Ford says to leave them up to 40 minutes, I'd be stretchered out by then.

I have never left my son that long, think the longest is 5 minutes. But I tend to go in, lie him down, stroke his hair, say good night and go out again. As long as you are still consistant it should still work.

Once the temper crys have gone you can leave it longer as then they are just whinging and you feel better.

only got a second.
with two of mine to get them through the nigh dh and I did do sort of controlled crying but instead of leaving them to cry, we just cuddled them, in the dark, in their rooms, at first untill they dropped off and then when they got used to it, when they calmed down popped them back in the cot. it took all of 2 nights and then a couple of weeks of waking for a really quick cuddle once or twice. I just couldn't bare hearing them cry on their own, we just had to be as calm as cucumbers when uddling them off to sleep and it seemed to make them trust that, although they were cross, they just gave into the cuddle.
I guess it is a bit like the baby whispers method?
good luck, stay cool, and go for it, it sounds like you need to! x

Took a week with dd, just under two weeks with ds.

You don't 'leave them to cry', longst ds cried for was 7 minutes (and he was 'worse; than dd)

They are now 11 and 8 years old! and both sleep very well. Ds just climbed into bed with me and gave me a big hug, so it didn't damage our relationship as far as i can see.

I did it with DS. The most important thing is that you decide on a method (something that you know you will be able to stick to) and are as consistent as possible.

We went in every 2 mins. Didn't pick up. Soothed fevered brow. Never stayed longer than about 30 seconds regardless of the yelling.

It was hard - but it worked in about 4-5 days.

Didn't want to do it but had reached end of my personal tether with bedtime taking hours. I don't feel remotely bad about it because DS is a fantastic sleeper now and I enjoy putting him to bed.

sorry to hear things are so tricky.

I think sometimes you know that you need to make changes, if lack of sleep is really affecting you.

we did CC at 6.5 months. I was returning to work, and desperate. it took about 3 nights to achieve long stretches of night-time sleep (mostly through the night) and a week to work on naps.

It doesn't appear to have affected our relationship with DD. In fact, we are now all less cranky, and get on a whole lot better .

in terms of your worries:

1. longest DD cried was 1hour, at 4am, on night one. next longest about 20mins.
2. you are not punishing her - you are encouraging her to self-settle. any kind of change will probably result in some tears. is it not your fault she can't slef-settle. in the early days, you do whatever it is you need to do to get any sleep at all!

3.with CC, you leave the longest intervals you feel comfortable with. if you want to pop in and reassure her every 2-3minutes, that's fine.

1. CC normally works within a week. why not set yourself a deadline, that if it doesn't work in 5, or 7, or 10 nights, you'll give yourselves a break for a bit and maybe try another plan.
2. you will have to be the judge on this one. start when she not teething/full of cold. chances are, if she was fit and well when you left the room, she won;t have developed a nasty illness 2 minutes later. but that's the beauty of checking - you can ensure she's comfortable, the right temperature etc.

Sorry I disappeared - at the in-laws

I know I need to do it, but there's always a voice in the back of my head saying, 'she won't be little forever'. I may try the 3 minutes, as that is the longest I left her last night before I chewed a piece out of her bedroom door!

Its just so ridiculous, I'm turning into one of those mums on Supernanny that I have always found weak - saying 'why are they always giving in?'. Now its me!

I did cc with DS at 9mo as his sleeping had deteriorated so much (he was up 10+ times a night, sometimes screaming for hours despite my attempts to soothe him). I started at 2 minutes, then gradually longer, never left him more than 10 minutes though. He sleeps very well now and is the most affectionate little boy ever, it really helped me be a better parent too!

The time you leave them to cry is irrelevant - it's not what sorts the problem out.

So if you can only manage 1 minute that'll be fine.

Just put her to bed with a firm "night night sleep tight see you in the morning" mantra and walk out.

Walk back in when you can't bear it - no eye contact; lie her back down and do the "night night..." saying again and leave.

And do this all night until she collapses into sleep.

If she's sick with fury (mine were...just mop the sick off the sheet and pjs and leave again...i did )

If you go in every 30 seconds you'll still be doing controlled crying and your dd will be furious but def not abandoned.

And whatever you do don't start it if you are not going to see it though - nothing crueller and all it teaches them is sometimes you have to yell REALLY loud!

And don't give in and pick them up for a cuddle when furious rage crying turns into "I can't believe it - they're winning" sobbing however much it tugs your heart strings.

Good luck

Pinkjenny, the fact that she "won't be little forever" is exactly why you need to be strong. The "temper tantrums" only get worse as they get older. I, luckily, got to practice on my stepkids before I had my own and the biggest lesson I learned is that being strong and consistent is absolutely worth all the heartache it costs you behind the scenes. It pays off in the children's behavior (and happiness) as they get older.
As others said, you need to pick a method that will work for you and just stick to it. There is no shortcut.

PInkJenny, lots of people DO bring up children who sleep terribly but don't resort to controlled crying. If you really feel that it is wrong for you then you don't "have" to do it. I didn't do it with mine - they gradually got better as they got older.

Actually I agree with morningpaper. Controlled crying is about the parent and where your boundaries are. I have little tolerance for kids jumping in bed with me in the middle fo the night so did cc. At the same time, couldn't care less if my ds is wearing cutoff shorts, hand me down t-shirts and has a patina of dirt on him at all times and so do very little to correct that part of him (except when going out to places where someone else might care...like family functions and fancy restaurants). Whatever you decide will be the right decision for you and therefore the right decision for your child. There are hundreds of right ways to bring up a child. Please don't overcriticize yourself...you are doing the best for you and your children. An unhappy mother makes an unhappy child.

Thanks for all the advice - took us about 50 minutes to get her down tonight, dh got her to sleep in the end. HOw long for, is anyone's guess, but he's got the monitor.

I think there are lots of 'issues' tied up for me in this. I feel so judged by my parents, who are always saying, 'oh just pick her up' 'just bring her downstairs' etc etc. Then they go home and have a full nights sleep. I feel like a bad mum because she doesn't sleep well. I worry that she is ill. All the time. I feel guily about going back to work.

So much guilt.

{{{{{{{{{{pinkjenny}}}}}}}}}}}}

Biscuit?

Chablis?

pinkjenny ds was an utterly hopeless sleeper. has always needed hours of bouncing or bf. apparently both dh and i were similar so perhaps your parents are not so wrong? just do what you need to to get him to sleep, worry about other stuff later.

ds is nearly 3 now and it still takes about 1.5 hours for entire bath/bedtime thing but i can see that when he drops his nap it will be far shorter still. it all gets better and you will find your own way of dealing with it, little rules and rituals.

PJ please don't feel like a bad mum. Some babies are just rubbish sleepers. And you're right, it's easy to say "Just do this/that" when it's not you suffering sleep deprivation. Some people said "just co-sleep" or "just comfort him" when DS was at his worst, but that was to ignore the fact that co-sleeping and comforting didn't help him sleep in the slightest.

It is hard to consider cc if it goes against your instincts. I had always said I wouldn't do it, but after 9 months of nighttime hell I hit rock bottom and was so desperate that I felt I had no other option. A week later, we were all sleeping through the night and we have never looked back. In hindsight, everything I was doing to try to comfort him, I think was actually disturbing his sleep more.

dd1 was and is a fab sleeper

dd2 has always been rubbish, she goes to bed at 7pm and will wake up without fail between 8pm-8.30pm

she wants a cuddle and a drink and will then go back to sleep. If we say, oh leave her, she will sob for eons

comes in our bed a couple of times a week still (to varying degrees of success )

but I have never felt comfortable leaving her to cry, it felt wrong to me, gut feeling etc

we had her asleep on the sofa a lot in the evening, me lying on our bed of an evening, all sorts of shite and I agree, it did piss off dh and we had 'words' when she was younger and particularly rubbish

but it will pass imo and I am hoping she will get better

Pinkjenny, as a first time expectant mother I'm probabaly not allowed an opinion on this. However I was an unsettled child, with bad colic as a baby and then nightmares etc as an child, my point is that now age 37 I still suffer from insomnia, I'm up almost every night and can rarely sleep through. In fact decent sleep happens so rarely I can honestly remember the few decent nights sleep that I have had in my life in detail, where, when etc.

Persevere now, they will thank you for it in the long run

pinkjenny - please don't judge yourself so harshly.

The reason your parents are so calm and laid back (and free with their advice!) is that they are grandparents which is not at all the same as being a parent.

Remember we should be aiming to be "good enough" parents (there's a whole text book on that subject by a famous child psychologist!) not perfect parents.

If you aim for perfection you will always fail.

If you pass that struggle for the unattainable on to your LOs they may end up always feeling guilty failures.

So aim for "good enough" - it's enough to be able to say to our children "no, your childhood wasn't perfect - but I did my best and was happy!"

No-one wants perfect parents - they want real parents.

I bought a book on solving your childs sleep problems. In this book they said we all have a way of going to sleep, with Dd it was always being fed to sleep, then she would wake later and need to be fed back to sleep.

They likened this to you going to sleep as normal, then waking as you do all night to turn over etc, to find your pillow has gone, the first thing you would do is get up and look for it!

Its the same for LOs, what you are doing is setting a new sleep routine, its really tough, but if you start you must see it through.

We did it with Dd, letting her cry for 1 min, then go in, no speaking, lay her back down with a shh. Then leave her for 2 mins etc, the longest we left her on night one was about 5 mins.

The gaps got longer over the days, and the longest she cried was 45 mins.

It took 3 -4 days and she was sleeping through, I don't think its ever as bad as you think it will be! HTH.

I should add, Dd is the sort of child that will scream for hours and make herself sick! But she got it!!