Should I discourage nighttime feeds for 9mo?

[MyArtfulMentor]

Have been going through I guess what is a "sleep regression" phase for past several weeks with my 9mo. Previously his paediatrician told me that I need to "train" my baby to sleep without always giving him the expectation of milk when he wakes in the night. He said at this age (and actually that was at his 7 month check up) babies shouldn't need to feed between the hours of 11pm and 5am. At that time baby was sleeping much better in any case. But now he is waking at least every 2 hours and at least the first time angles very purposefully for the breast. I can tell it is not necessarily that he is hungry but it is still his 1st place to seek comfort. Frustratingly however he is now less likely to fall asleep at the breast during these wakings and it ends with me pacing or rocking for about an hour, sometimes more, alternating with some nursing if he gets very insistent. Just wondered if there is a good way to stop this habit as I am just trying to shorten and simplify what can be a long torturous period of getting him back to sleep. To be clear, now if I let him breastfeed during the night, it sort of seems to increase his agitation and he gets quite physical, for want of a better word, clambering and twisting this way and that which is obviously quite uncomfortable.

I started only offering water with mine if she woke at night and she stopped waking as I guess she stopped expecting milk when she did wake.

Also I think 2 hours is roughly the length of a night time sleep cycle so maybe using it as a way to help settle himself again as he enters wakeful periods in the night. Might be worth looking up some self settling plans and see if any work for him?

Thanks, this advice about water actually concurs with some advice I just received informally from a doctor with paediatric knowledge. She also mentioned starting to let him self-soothe - effectively staying in the room and consistently putting him to lie back down instead of picking him up. We're ready to try it!

It may be the 9 month growth spurt? They tend to be hungrier during growth spurts. I always breastfed on demand and so never bothered with the stress of attempting to sleep train. I am not sure it is a good idea to give an infant water unless it is sterilised and they are dehydrated due to a heat wave or somesuch?

Hmm, I was still breastfeeding DC2 usually once overnight at that age. DC1 slept through at that age (formula fed).

What I used to do past 6 months with DC2 was have a 4hrly rule overnight. In the daytime he only breastfed around that often so I figured he didn't need feeding more than that overnight. So if he woke I'd breastfeed him both sides, if he still wouldn't go to sleep he'd have his dummy and DH would take over settling. If he woke sooner than 3hrs then DH would settle him with dummy/rocking etc and I wouldn't feed again until 3hrs was up. I can't say it helped his sleep particularly, but it helped my health! He started sleeping through at 10 months though. (Then started nursery at 11.5 months and promptly started waking multiple times a night again.)

I was also putting it down to the 9mo growth spurt and trying not to overthink it too much, hoping it will pass. But recently as I mentioned the breastfeeding seems almost counter-productive with him. Not to say that he may not at times be hungry. Actually we do currently live in a hot country! This may be why all the nurses and medics here emphasise giving water after meals and when he wakes up etc. Did not mention that was also advised that paediatrician would have warned against the nighttime feeds when he's coming to the teething stage to prevent cavities....

I didn't nightwean mine until 18 months and two years old respectively. I absolutely wouldn't have done it under one year and the reason I waited the extra six months with my youngest is because with hindsight I could see I'd done it too early for my eldest.

Oh dear, more joy to look forward to as he will be starting nursery soon at 12 months! Yes it makes sense what you say about following his normal feeding frequency as a guide. We have roughly been using the same tactics but recently I have relieved hubby more from his rocking duties past a certain time and that old adage of "well at least if one of us gets some sleep..." But certainly there seems to be something where he falls asleep quicker with my husband in the night, could be his expectations are just lower!

I was of the same view until starting to feel a bit desperate. The advice out there seems to be quite conflicting. The latest I heard from a direct medical source is that night nursing at this age may lead to cavities, and this is why doctor advised against it!

I’d only heard that night bottle feeding was linked to cavities because milk pools in their mouth? But with breastfeeding, the milk literally goes straight down their throats?

If you're breastfeeding a night feed at 9 months is fairly normal, I would just feed him and not stress about it for now. Your Dr sounds quite old fashioned

Did your doctor just roll out of the 1970s? No, night feeds at this age are totally normal. My 11 m/o DD still night feeds loads when teething as it's natural pain relief, or when coming down with an illness at it helps with immunity. She pretty much sleeps through the rest of the time, but I know I'll never look back and regret being responsive to my baby. Brush your baby's teeth and don't worry. It won't lead to cavities any more than feeding in daytime hours.

To be honest it feels like the right thing to do particularly in the early hours of the morning when your mental and physical resources to "train" are at a low.

Useful to hear, thanks. I believe some of the advice I am receiving could be cultural and I say this with respect, but it's just to give context. I live abroad in a place which is a melting pot, but the senior medical professionals here are mainly Caribbean or Filipino. It could be something in the hot climate and different conditions which influences the advice they give. (For instance my Filipino doctor advised against giving Vitamin D as this is for babies in "cold countries" - a basic sense to that I guess, but I have still given him Vit D!).

Er, vitamin D is for northern countries and/or those with very dark skin tones.

If you are in the Caribbean/Phillipines and your baby is a fair skin tone, baby should be getting plenty from sun and normal diet. Your doctor is correct and you should not be giving him vitamin D supplements unless a blood test shows a deficiency. Vitamin D supplements is one that you can overdose on and experience issues like increased thirst, kidney problems, stomach cramps, nausea and so on. You can’t overdose on Vit D from the sun though, as the body ceases production on it own.

It sounds as if your doctors aren’t particularly trained in breastfeeding past the first few months.

Firstly you do not need to supplement breast milk with water. Your body will naturally adapt the milk to suit the babies needs so if it’s hotter your body will know to make a larger quantity of more watery milk. By all means get baby used to a cup or having some water but they do not need this for hydration regardless of how hot the country is, advice to give babies water when it’s hot is for formal fed babies.

Night feeds at 9 months old is completely normal and developmentally appropriate. Your DC slept well before this current regression and they will sleep well again when they are developmentally ready.

If your DC was 18months old or 2 then cutting down on night feeds as a way to improve sleep if it’s a problem might be appropriate but I wouldn’t do that for a baby under 1. 9 months old is still very much a baby!

Thank you. Fortunately he has not demonstrated any obvious discomfort from supplement Vit D but wise advice not to continue as yes he is fair-skinned etc.

I think there is a low expectation from doctors here to continue breastfeeding beyond 6 months. Exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months is encouraged (even though that wasn't poss for me after having to return to work at 3 months) and then the assumption seems to be that baby will be mainly on formula and you will start "training" your baby at nights. (His 9 months assessment nurse did recommend breastfeeding for 2 years however, so advice varies). A common suggestion here (not amongst doctors but within the community) is to give the baby cereal in their bottle from around 4 months. We've never done this but seems there is room for more education for parents here as cereal in a bottle across the medical profession at least appears to be outmoded. That's the problem- very few pre and post-natal resources and no equivalent NHS or breastfeeding support societies to turn to here. Never knew that about the breastmilk adapting itself but proves again that breastmilk is an amazing natural resource.

Do you do a dream feed around 11pm? Also are they eating plenty of food? If so then they shouldn't be hungry.

I sometimes think the advice on here encourages women to become trapped into what can become years of sleepless nights. They absolutely can go all night without feeding. I was back at work at 4 months & wouldn't have coped with being up every night.

It's important to make sure you can get decent sleep if you're going to juggle everything once you've gone back to work.

I was going to say this. You won't find a lactation consultant who recommends night weaning under one.

It's not really a dream feed at that point as he would be fully awake if he wakes up at 11 (which he has been doing recently). He has not been getting back to sleep on the breast alone recently. I don't think he's hungry, he's just looking to get back to sleep. Good to hear your experience as someone who had to go back to work in a short space of time also. The irony is I spent a lot of time complaining about having to return to work so early and wishing I had the UK 9 standard months, but he was sleeping pretty well all along up until the 9 months mark, so even if I'd had the 9 months, it would still have been the most exhausting point to have returned to work!

It's not really a dream feed at that point as he would be fully awake if he wakes up at 11

Could you do dream feed at 10pm & see if you can feed him half asleep?

Also could you consider changing to a bottle now?

I was gutted I had to go back to work so soon. But apparently 9 months is harder as they are more aware & clingy.

There's always something to feel guilty about!

Just clicked that a dream feed would require some intervention from me based on your suggestion! When I used to co-sleep all night with him, dream feeding would just occur naturally. I hadn't thought of trying that I have to say but it may be worth a try. Yes I was considering changing to bottle or trying the "controversial" method of giving him some water instead of milk. I only hesitate with this as I would like to keep my milk supply up as much as possible seeing as he is now mainly on formula in daytime when I'm at work (and I no longer have time or energy to be pumping) - it's never straightforward is it?!

Yes returning to work early did have some advantages including getting some time back to yourself when they are still at the adjustable phase.