Help, feeling trapped - baby sleep

[Sqweks]

Hello I've never posted before but feeling so stuck. Would be great to hear if others have experienced this and/or if they found a middle ground in the end? Please be kind

I have a 10 month old who has always slept very intermittently overnight. I also have a v high energy 4 year old. In the early months we got some 3-4 hour stretches, then at the 4 months regression a period of extremely unsettled sleep/only settling in the crook of my arm, feeding regularly. He is exclusively breastfed and woke for milk every 2 hours at least. At 7 months I couldn't take it any more and went through a really tough couple of months or so with sleep training (first extremely gently - just start of the night gradual nudging - with no success) then at 8 months when he was showing no jnterest in eating food in the day we hired a sleep consultant and did what felt to me a strict routine of structured daytime feeding and controlled crying for naps and overnight. It did work but I found it extremely upsetting as it is not the way I want to parent - I want to be responsive to my baby and his crying sends me into a state of extreme stress. I worried it was making him more clingy in the day. We had about a month of quite good sleep where he basically slept through from 6-6 (with the odd v stressful wake up where he did not resettle quickly and if I fed it threw things off again immediately) then he has had two illnesses in quick succession where I reverted to feeding and bedsharing to soothe him We are back to square one if not worse as he is waking two hourly and last night even every hour for milk despite settling himself (by crying) at the start of naps and bedtime and in a cot of . Bedsharing makes it worse as from 4am he is constantly latching and unlatching. He has gone back to not eating soldi food in the day.

My husband has lost all sympathy for me as he is firmly of the view we need to sleep train again and I need to cut out the night feeds cold turkey. I'm going mad with exhaustion and being so grumpy with both kids, keep catching colds but the only way to get any change seems to be v hardline, shut the door, never feed him ever and I just can't face that option either. Id be fine to resettle him twice a night or something but it seems to be so all or nothing. Feeling so trapped and starting to wish we hadn't had a second child. So much of this year has been spent in pure survival mode, I mourn the year I could have had with my firstborn instead of constantly snapping at her.

What should I do? Breastfeeding and creating secure attachments are both so important to me but I just don't know how to manage.

Your baby is securely attached to you: you are their mum and they love and need you. But they and you need sleep too, and it seems like your baby is telling you that either they need the clarity of knowing you're not going to feed overnight so they should focus on getting to sleep, or they are going to feed all night and not eat in the day. They're not feeding in the night out of hunger, because when they do that they don't eat solids in the daytime, and because they can go all night. They are ok. Just like when they're a bit older they might cry at drop off but you know they'll be ok once they're in school, or they might cry because they can't have cake now because they're going to have dinner in half an hour.

Something that helps me when my baby is upset is remembering that being upset isn't the same as being harmed. Mine cries when he gets his vaccinations or when we put his sleeves on, or when he goes into the car seat, but pretty soon after he's ok again, and all of those things are better for him than the alternative. He's upset but he's not being harmed, and because I trust that he'll be ok, he will learn he's ok. It's hard and tiring, but you've done this once already- it's not forever!

I’ve never been in this situation as I only have one child but I can imagine how difficult it is for you with an older child and a baby that needs you.
What struck me about your post is how the sleep training and not responding doesn’t sit well with you. That’s the bit that I feel very strongly about too and I can’t imagine the stress of feeling this is the only option.
I know your partner is getting frustrated but in all honesty he needs to step up and support you. I’d be having some frank conversations and seeing what help he can provide to support you.he may not agree with how you want to do it but they are his children too and needs to be more supportive. Does baby settle for him at all? Can he sleep with LO for an hour or two while you get rest in another bed (I’ve done this with my parent and it can work well). Or go in a sling (not sure if you’ve ever used one) with dad while you get an hour or two?
Is there anyone else that can help? Any grandparents, neighbours, friends that can give you an hour or two in the day to rest? Can you go to bed when LO goes and get plenty of rest early in the night so the 4am wakings aren’t so gruelling? Can you get any more help in the day with household chores/laundry/cooking?
For context I co sleep with my 16 month old. Some nights are fine and we both sleep well, other times it’s really really tough. BUT it passes and we come through it and things get easier again. You are doing a wonderful job for you little ones, I hope it gets easier for you.

Thank you both for your kindness in taking the time to reply to me it means a lot.

It is helpful to hear your reassurance that crying is not harmful to him. But I still doubt it and get so distressed. I decided to go for it tonight and he has been crying for 45 mins currently with no signs of stopping. We have been in 3 times but it doesn't soothe him even picking him up it makes it worse when we are there. In the past this has gone on for close to two hours. This feels different to soothing a baby through vaccinations or similar. I don't know any other mums who let their babies cry this long so it makes me feel very terrible and like I'm doing something extremely cruel. Would you still stick to your same advice?

With my first born once we taught her to fall sleep independently she just woke once or twice for milk and it was manageable. I don't know why this little guy has to be so all or nothing 😭

My husband has offered to do the nights for a week and me out on earplugs but I find this hard to take him up on as I know he has such a high tolerance for just leaving him alone to cry. I feel just so incredibly distressed but equally don't know how we can cope as a family with the alternative of such frequent wakings.

We don't have any family back up locally which I'm sure is part of the problem. I suppose we are designed to care for babies in tribes of adults not alone like this.

Thank you again for your kindnesses

It is super hard if you've no other support nearby, you're right we're not meant to do this alone.

It sounds like the check-ins may not be helping your little one (I know with my nephews checking in when they did sleep training made it much worse). I think you have to give yourself grace and kindness, so if you've had too much tonight then call it quits and try again tomorrow, and maybe try without checking in? Or take your husband up on his offer: it sounds like you know he won't let any harm come to her, but you will at least get a week's sleep.

I don't know if you're on Reddit, but we've found r/sleeptrain really really helpful. One thing they seem to consistently advise on those boards is having your daytime nap schedules set up really well for the age of your baby, so it might be worth taking a few days to focus on that and get that bang on before trying again with sleep training? Or as @Brightandbreezey says maybe it's not for you and some creative alternative sleep approaches might be the way to go?

In any case, you will get through this, your baby is lucky to have such a loving mum and you will all be ok

Hi @Sqweks i am so sorry you’re going through this. I have to say this sounds really similar to my daughter who is also my second. She’s currently 8 months and sleep has been a battle. We also sleep trained at 5.5 months and not much crying and she got it but after a while it sort of stopped working but was manageable but recently we went away and everything has gone bananas l. Anyway I don’t want to make this about me but I wanted to reassure you that you’re not alone. I too have a baby where it seems nothing is quite enough- if one night you feed 2 hourly then next night she wants it hourly. It really feels like all or nothing.

ive taken a different approach and it was on advice from GP as I felt veey deregulated and snappy at my kids. I am trying to be more positive and be very much like this will get better and my job is to support my child to learn. This for my daughter means being really honest and realistic about when she needs a feed at night and accepting that any other wakeups will be unsettling. So for us I am happy to feed at 3/4 hour mark. Like your daughter if I go to my daughter when she wakes she’s worse and cries more and is more unsettled. Unfortunately if she wakes at say 2 hours I just have to let her try and resettle but I give it a 30 min cut off. At that point I will feed her or settle her whatever she needs.

I completely understand the logic that it would be confusing for her etc but honestly I think it works better for both of us. I know there is an end to the unsettling and equally I know I have given her space to try and resettle herself.

since doing this she has stopped waking at 10pm (previously sleeps at 7pm wakes at 10pm) and now wakes at about 2ish which im fine with.
she does wake some nights at 10 but resettles herself (with a few cries but about 2 minutes or so)

it goes against everything they teach you in sleep training and I get that but I don’t think my daughter is like those babies! She’s so all or nothing that it means she can get so upset so I have to meet her in the midddle to get a result.
I can’t be sure it will work for you, but your mental health is affected by both lack of sleep and listening to your baby cry. This way you kind of help both but not quickly. Results are not quick when we intervene in this way but different children need different things.

you need support from your partner that doesn’t mean he lets baby cry and you don’t hear it . It means understanding what you can cope with and how to achieve results within that realm.

Thank you so much both for your thoughtful and kind replies. I am honestly really moved that there are kind people out there who will take time to reply so thoughtfully and nonjudgmentally.

It is really helpful to hear your experience of your little one @Pinklilly and that you've had some progress with a more flexible approach. I had wondered about capping the crying at a certain time point - I think it's something I will give a try. I'm sorry for you as well that you are going through it/have been so distressed with it too.amd glad you've found a path.

I will also check out that Reddit thread thank you @fatcathatmat and helpful to hear your nephew's experience and your empathy too.

Following with interest.

I would love to be responsive but it all seems to be a bit "roll with it" and i can't keep rolling with sleeping for no longer than 1.5 hours at a time during the night (naps are shit).

I would love to hear from people who've managed gentler sleep training that's actually worked.

The no cry sleep solution book is supposed to be very helpful. I bought it but haven’t implemented anything (the first few chapters checks that you are ready to make changes, I realised I wasn’t so have left it).
I sit in the “roll with it” camp and co sleep. My DD wakes from 1 - 3 hours but I’m right there and she mostly settles quickly and so do I.
I know it can be really tough though… I just could never leave her to cry. Good luck to you all out there, it’s tough but we will get through it!

I’d say you’re right in that the husband is the parent too. But why does that mean he needs to support OP’s choices! Why can’t she support his choice to sleep train? Your logic is wrong.

OP I hated sleep training, but I needed to do it for my sanity. I felt like I was unsafe to parent. Could you get husband to do the training? I couldn’t do it myself.

This post is a year old… I imagine the OP has got through the rough times and I hope things have settled down for her now.
Sorry but I think your logic is wrong… you say you hated sleep training and couldn’t do it yourself. But let someone else do it to your children?! That’s bizarre to me.
But we are all different I guess!