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What does ‘sleeping through’ actually mean? Waking for feeds?

65 replies

user1499609760 · 31/05/2024 08:23

There’s so much talk about ‘sleeping through the night’ for babies, the kind of holy grail. However, am I correct in thinking that many babies will still wake for a feed or two, even if they’re sleeping 7pm - 7am for example? I had always assumed that ‘sleeping through’ meant no wake ups, but I’ve since heard differently and admit that I’m struggling to see how that is ‘sleeping through’.

The context for this is we’re wondering whether to implement some kind of sleep training, or at least some changes for our 18 week old. We think we’re in the 4-month regression, though so far it hasn’t been too awful.

LO will generally head up to bed around 9, and fall asleep between 9.30 and 10.30, depending on the night. Routine of nappy change, pyjamas, final (bottle) feed of expressed milk/formula. Bath some nights, around 8 - 8.30. Sometimes DD will fall asleep very quickly after the feed with very little input from us aside from holding; sometimes more rocking/shushing is needed. Generally we put down in the crib about 10 minutes after she is asleep.

In the last few weeks we’ve had some ‘false starts’ where we put DD down in the crib but she wone either immediately or very soon after. We have generally managed to resettle with some rocking etc. Some nights she’s needed A LOT of settling before even attempting to put her down - generally rocking & shushing - which we think is probably the 4-month regression. So recently it’s sometimes been more towards 11 that she’s actually asleep.

Then she generally wakes anytime between 3 and 4.30, feeds, and goes back to sleep. Sometimes it’s easier/quicker than others. Last night for example she was awake at 4.30 and asleep again at 5. Other nights, it can be 1 hour+ to feed & settle her. So she can sleep for up to 6 hours in one go, some nights more like 4-5.

Generally, she’s awake again between 7 and 7.30.

We’d like that she starts going to bed a bit earlier, so we have more of an evening. We generally go up to bed with her at the moment. We’d also like that she learns how to fall asleep herself, so it doesn’t need the rocking/shushing from us. And eventually of course we would like that she sleeps for longer & longer stretches at once.

I think she is learning to self settle to some extent: I’ve been hearing her in the night thrashing around, sometimes even letting out a little cry or two, but she seems to settle back down and presumably either go back to, or stay, asleep.

The sleep method my DH likes the look of is a kind of modified Ferber/TakingCaraBabies, putting her down awake & then checking in at intervals that gradually increase. It’s only for the initial put-down, and any wakes before midnight, after which it suggests feeding to sleep is ok.

My concerns are, if she starts going to bed much earlier, will she not also wake a few times for feeding? In which case, from my point of view, is the system we currently have, with essentially one wake up from a later bedtime, worth sticking with? I can cope at the moment with going to bed with her between 9-10.30, dealing with one wake up, then back to sleep until 7ish. But if she was waking at say 1am and then again at 5ish for a feed, is that better or worse for me…?

Or maybe we should be working to gradually bring bedtime a bit earlier, maybe 8pm, and allow her to hopefully lengthen her sleep stretches that way?
I’m also happy with her waking around 7/7.30, and have read that a common issue with sleep training is that it can result in very early wake ups, which I’d want to avoid if possible.

But, we do want to try help her fall asleep independently…! So confused by it all really.

It seems to me that sleep training and the ‘sleeping through the night’ idea doesn’t really mention wakes for feeding and managing those from the parental perspective. I’m sure some babies do sleep 7 - 7 without any wake ups, but I’m not sure whether our 4-month old is really ready for that physiologically.

Any advice or perspectives welcome. Sorry for the essay!

OP posts:
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Oblomov24 · 31/05/2024 12:45

What rubbish, sleeping through means not waking up. End of.

Babyboomtastic · 31/05/2024 12:49

user1499609760 · 31/05/2024 11:57

Thanks everyone for your responses, it’s been really useful for me.

When you read through stuff on sleep & training, it’s interesting that in the US it’s considered fine to sleep train from 4 months, including some doctors recommending it. I wonder if that’s because parents tend to go back to work earlier than many of their U.K. counterparts, so poor sleep becomes much harder to cope with.

Possibly, they certainly aren't as 'baby led' there in general.

However, lots of women go back early in the UK, and even those that have a full year back are usually going back in broken sleep.

It's a very lucky woman that has a baby 'sleeping through ' on return to work. Many of us juggle broken sleep and working for years.

I went back (PT) at 3 months for my first and 6 weeks for my second.

If you want to sleep train, then the advice is definitely not too do it before 6 months in any event.

beanii · 03/06/2024 10:40

Sleeping through means just that - sleeping through the night without waking for feeds.

My 3 were fab and went through the night (9pm-6am) from 10 weeks old.

I'd ditch the books and names of sleep routines and go with common sense.

Start with the last bottle at 8pm and some baby rice and then put baby down after that, when you hear them stir in the night, give them a few minutes to self settle before jumping in to feed them.

Consistency is key with bedtime.

Emmz1510 · 03/06/2024 10:42

To me ‘sleeping through the night’ means not waking for feeds. It doesn’t necessarily mean 7pm-7am though! I considered my daughter to be sleeping through when she went down after her last feed about 10/11 and slept through till 5 or 6. Bedtime didn’t shift earlier till she was a good bit older and napping less.
Every baby is different and there is so much variation. There are also variations in how much sleep people consider to be a full night.

TheOneWithUnagi · 03/06/2024 10:50

Your baby is doing amazingly well by the sounds of it - my 9 month old wakes more than that. You don't need to sleep train such a young baby (or at all IMO)

The false start may possibly be due to not being tired enough at bedtime. We pushed bedtime back 30 mins and it eliminated this.

Lights22 · 03/06/2024 11:25

The fact she's sleeping that long at 18 weeks and only waking once is brilliant, you have what is known to all intents and purposes as a good sleeper!

Bring her bedtime forward if that works for you/is what you want, but only 15-30 mins at a time, do that for a few days then repeat.

Similarly, the fact she'll go to sleep with hushing and rocking is also brilliant, you have a far more independent baby than many.

People who talk about little babies sleeping through are (generally, but by no means all) talking shit. They are by far the exception but most parents feel their parenting is judged by how well their baby sleeps therefore a great proportion lie through their teeth about it.

What I've discovered over 4 years and 2 babies is that there is actually a secret mum club, the one where people are honest and babies don't "sleep through", it's a pretty rough ride and their babies aren't potty trained by 1 😉

Kazzybingbong · 03/06/2024 14:18

Please don’t sleep train a 4 month old baby. I don’t agree with it at all but if you must do it, then only after 6 months is advised.

It doesn’t work anyway. Just teaches the baby that you don’t respond to their needs.

Babies wake at night, you decided to have a baby so you have to care for them when they do. But surely you knew that.

Pinkcountrybumpkin · 03/06/2024 19:50

Try reading ‘the baby sleep guide’ by Stephanie Modell. Worked for 2 of ours

Canthelpmyselffromjoiningin · 03/06/2024 19:54

I think some of the American attitudes to babies are barbaric. I'm 41 years old and sometimes have bad nights when I'm tired out but my brain just won't turn off or I'm hungry / thirsty / too hot etc so how we expect a tiny baby to sleep on demand or cry themselves to sleep baffles me. In terms of heading up to bed, or getting them to nap alone, have a look at the lullaby trust safe sleep guidelines. A 4 month old baby shouldn't be put to sleep in a room alone, it's a SIDS risk. They are supposed to wake frequently when they are little. Tbh once I stopped fretting about forcing them to sleep "properly" I loved nap time cuddled up on the sofa watching trashy TV while they slept on me. It goes so fast don't waste it trying to solve a problem that society has told you you have.

bakewellbride · 03/06/2024 20:00

My youngest woke hourly for 11 months and although it nearly broke me I never, ever considered leaving her to cry or anything like that. You don't realise how good you have it, just be there for your tiny baby who has spent more life in the womb than in the outside world. They are designed to wake for feeds.

Mrscooper13 · 03/06/2024 20:58

I’m sure I started dream feeding mine around this age and it made such a differnence

so we would start bedtime about 6:30- down by 7:30/8
then dream feed and 10 and would usually go through until 5/6ish

that bigger junk made a massive difference

TiredMummma · 03/06/2024 21:39

Son slept through about 18 months. Didn't start falling asleep himself until 3. My other hasn't yet but wakes up at 11 & 3/4 for a short dream feed so fairly predictable. It just all comes with time, so I would just relax into whatever works for you and the baby.

Definitely keep going to bed with the baby until 6 months as it is part of safe sleep guidance that they should be in the same room (lowers SIDS risks etc.)

In terms of bedtimes, I would bring it earlier over time. Fussing before sleep sounds like over tiredness, a dream feed longer than about 10 minutes (I never picked either of mine up, just fed from the bed/cot though), if it's an hour something is waking them up or you might need to think about naps eventually.

The Beyond Sleep Training Project on Facebook is highly recommended if you want to think through in detail bedtimes/nap times, but I never worried and they both have gotten there!

DanceMumTaxi · 03/06/2024 21:45

I always thought it was doing a 6 hour stretch without waking, which is obviously nowhere near 7-7. Neither of mine did this consistently until they were really quite old. Ds was still waking up at 5/5:30am every day until he was at least 4.

IWillBeWaxingAnOwl · 04/06/2024 09:03

Research papers that study infant sleep usually define it as a solid block of 5-6 hours. So your baby already "sleeps through" at times - congratulations.

Socially, people either define it as 7-7 with no interruptions (rare for the under 18mo olds) or that sort of block with milk interrupting.

It is biologically normal for infant and child sleep to be variable up to 4-6 years. It is normal for sleep to fracture and consolidate across that time ("regressions"). There is little scientific evidence linking "regressions" to very specific ages but all sorts of apps will try to tell you that at exactly X age, y will happen.

It is normal and healthy for infants to need others around when they sleep. That's survival
. "Self settling" is possible to move towards, but temperament is a major variable. Some infants will be able to go to sleep alone from a very young age, some will be an older child before they manage, even if their parents did the exact same things. For this reason some respond very well to "sleep training" type methods, some do not.

Even if you do some kind of sleep training, there will be periods where her sleep is poorer - teething, illness, life changes.

It's also normal for infants and small children to wake early - our current norm is 5.30am.

And I would also gently stress what others have - your baby is on the lucky side of biologically normal. Most adults in relationships do not self settle to sleep alone / without aid. We have a bath, a cuppa, chat to our partner, have a cuddle, toss and turn a bit, some suck their thumb or cuddle a toy. It's hard, but it's also okay and there are special moments in it too.

(signed, a mum who was up until 2am with her ill 13mo old, and has slept 3 hours).

ColdWaterDipper · 04/06/2024 16:55

Sleeping through is when the baby sleeps right through without waking for feeds. At 4 months some babies do sleep through (mine did at 9-10 weeks old) but lots don’t still. When mine were still waking for feeds in the night I generally just went in and fed them but not immediately - so I would give them a chance to self settle but if they sounded like they were going to cry then I would feed them. There’s a big growth spurt at 4 months and one of mine started waking in the night again for a feed for a week or so, but then went back to sleeping through. They seemed to just naturally stretch out longer times at night without needing feeds, from waking every 2-4 hours from birth, though to sleeping 7pm-8am with no feeds at 10 weeks ish. I kept everything very dark and quiet and no fuss at night, which I think helped them to settle down again after a feed. in terms of bedtime I had one that wanted to stay up and be jolly in the evening and one that wanted to be asleep by 6pm! I can’t remember how we got the wide awake one to go to sleep earlier - I think we just used the same routine of bath, feed, story and bed and put them to bed gradually earlier and earlier until we hit 7pm bedtime. Go easy on yourself though, it’s hard and especially with a first baby. I was too governed by the need to do things ‘right’ with my first and it was a lot more chilled with my second as I didn’t care about doing things correctly then.

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