What does ‘sleeping through’ actually mean? Waking for feeds?

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There’s so much talk about ‘sleeping through the night’ for babies, the kind of holy grail. However, am I correct in thinking that many babies will still wake for a feed or two, even if they’re sleeping 7pm - 7am for example? I had always assumed that ‘sleeping through’ meant no wake ups, but I’ve since heard differently and admit that I’m struggling to see how that is ‘sleeping through’.

The context for this is we’re wondering whether to implement some kind of sleep training, or at least some changes for our 18 week old. We think we’re in the 4-month regression, though so far it hasn’t been too awful.

LO will generally head up to bed around 9, and fall asleep between 9.30 and 10.30, depending on the night. Routine of nappy change, pyjamas, final (bottle) feed of expressed milk/formula. Bath some nights, around 8 - 8.30. Sometimes DD will fall asleep very quickly after the feed with very little input from us aside from holding; sometimes more rocking/shushing is needed. Generally we put down in the crib about 10 minutes after she is asleep.

In the last few weeks we’ve had some ‘false starts’ where we put DD down in the crib but she wone either immediately or very soon after. We have generally managed to resettle with some rocking etc. Some nights she’s needed A LOT of settling before even attempting to put her down - generally rocking & shushing - which we think is probably the 4-month regression. So recently it’s sometimes been more towards 11 that she’s actually asleep.

Then she generally wakes anytime between 3 and 4.30, feeds, and goes back to sleep. Sometimes it’s easier/quicker than others. Last night for example she was awake at 4.30 and asleep again at 5. Other nights, it can be 1 hour+ to feed & settle her. So she can sleep for up to 6 hours in one go, some nights more like 4-5.

Generally, she’s awake again between 7 and 7.30.

We’d like that she starts going to bed a bit earlier, so we have more of an evening. We generally go up to bed with her at the moment. We’d also like that she learns how to fall asleep herself, so it doesn’t need the rocking/shushing from us. And eventually of course we would like that she sleeps for longer & longer stretches at once.

I think she is learning to self settle to some extent: I’ve been hearing her in the night thrashing around, sometimes even letting out a little cry or two, but she seems to settle back down and presumably either go back to, or stay, asleep.

The sleep method my DH likes the look of is a kind of modified Ferber/TakingCaraBabies, putting her down awake & then checking in at intervals that gradually increase. It’s only for the initial put-down, and any wakes before midnight, after which it suggests feeding to sleep is ok.

My concerns are, if she starts going to bed much earlier, will she not also wake a few times for feeding? In which case, from my point of view, is the system we currently have, with essentially one wake up from a later bedtime, worth sticking with? I can cope at the moment with going to bed with her between 9-10.30, dealing with one wake up, then back to sleep until 7ish. But if she was waking at say 1am and then again at 5ish for a feed, is that better or worse for me…?

Or maybe we should be working to gradually bring bedtime a bit earlier, maybe 8pm, and allow her to hopefully lengthen her sleep stretches that way?
I’m also happy with her waking around 7/7.30, and have read that a common issue with sleep training is that it can result in very early wake ups, which I’d want to avoid if possible.

But, we do want to try help her fall asleep independently…! So confused by it all really.

It seems to me that sleep training and the ‘sleeping through the night’ idea doesn’t really mention wakes for feeding and managing those from the parental perspective. I’m sure some babies do sleep 7 - 7 without any wake ups, but I’m not sure whether our 4-month old is really ready for that physiologically.

Any advice or perspectives welcome. Sorry for the essay!

Sleeping through means not waking for feeds so sleeping from bedtime to a reasonable time in the morning.
Mine were both breastfed and the eldest slept through from 12 months, the youngest much older, about 2, even after that would still wake up some nights and climb in with us. I didn't dreamfeed the eldest but did with the youngest because she would be ready for bed earlier, about 7pm from 3 months, so would dreamfeed her when I went to bed then she usually wake up to feed early hours but go back quite easily.
I wouldn't worry about sleeping through with such a young baby, most won't be able to go through the night without food at that age. Just start a bedtime routine (which it sounds like you have been doing). You could try a dreamfeed when you go to bed and see if that keeps her going until morning.
I found that as soon as I got a 6h stretch of continuous sleep I started feeling a lot more human!

sleeping through I know medically means 5 hours but for me personally it was 6-7 hours ie 11pm-6am I would start last feed about 10-10.30 and hopefully asleep just after 11 then that was it to early morning (5am) and gradually early morning got to be about 7am instead of 5am then i considered her sleeping through it was longer till she did anything like 11 hours but she was doing 5-6 hours at about 9 weeks not absolutely every night but most nights. However she was an easy and contented baby that was happy to lie awake. even at 14 she likes time by herself

Mine did 7-7 from 4 months old but that’s because we did a dreamfeed at 10ish as we were going to bed. No idea if that counts as sleeping through. Honestly I couldn’t care less about the definition as they got 12 hours sleep and I got an uninterrupted 8 so everyone was happy. Dropped the dreamfeed when we started weaning so they were getting calories through food instead.

@InTheRainOnATrain I am interested in the definition purely because it seems to vary a lot despite being this holy grail. Like you, I’d love even just 8 hours uninterrupted, which I hope she’s on track for by doing 6ish now. As a PP said, having even a 6-hour chunk makes a difference.

I would say 6-8 hrs. Basically so she’s not waking you up to feed and you get a night’s sleep.

Wouldn’t give her an earlier bed time at this point unless you either wake her or give a dream feed when you go to bed. You risk her waking at 1am and then again in the early morning at this age. I’d focus on trying to extend that longer 6hr period she’s doing and making sure she’s getting enough milk during the rest of the day to do that.

Seriously, you have a 4 month old baby. For 95% of us, the only way you'll get 'just' (lol) 8 hours uninterrupted, is by alternating nights with your partner.

Most parents aren't getting 8 hours uninterrupted for the first year because of their child sleeping, often far beyond that. Sleeping through, for 12 hours often doesn't happen until somewhere between toddlerhood and pre-school age. And so not for all.

You know that many babies of this age are still waking every 1-3, hours right? My second woke hourly from 6-18m. My children do have chronic sleep issues, but I actually can't remember the last time I had 8 hours uninterrupted. Maybe 6 years ago.

Your tiny baby is already sleeping exceptionally well, and yet you expect more. Honestly, the issue is more to do with your unrealistic expectations, than your baby's actually brilliant sleep.

Yes, interrupted sleep is hard, but it's also part of having babies/toddlers/young children. I'd thank your lucky stars that your child only wakes up once, and try to remember that some of us at that age were measuring wake ups in double figures.

Again, super normal. Mine would nap for 37 minutes exactly 😂

For us it meant last feed at 10pm, next one around 5am/6am then back to sleep until 8am/9am with DC1.

DC2 was similar, but was more fond of 11pm/4am.

DC1 I exclusively expressed for because they wouldn’t latch, so the extra few hours were a boon. DC2 fed directly so I rarely fully woke up for the 4am feed, it was more like getting up for the loo and straight back to sleep when done most of the time.

This. The expectations on a tiny baby who is biologically designed to wake frequently and feed frequently are ridiculous. Even adults aren't actually meant to sleep one large block, biologically we are designed to have two blocks of sleep.

Mine didn't sleep through till they were at least toddlers. I remember my DD in the four month regression waking every 45 minutes!

She's now a teenager and I can't get her out of bed! They all get there eventually.

Basically you can't. Just go with it Don't expect babies to sleep for very long because most don't. You can tie yourself in knots worrying about it but it really is just luck mostly and sleep will happen eventually when they are older. Expect no sleep then any sleep you get will be. Bonus !!! Before you know it you will be waking them up for school guaranteed.

I don’t know if you intended to come across as aggressive, so I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to this post. Thanks for your perspective.

Yes, sleep deprivation and interruption is hard, and also expected. But just like babies, everyone’s ability to cope with it is different, so I don’t see the harm in asking people’s experiences and for any suggestions.

To me, sleeping through means 7-7 ish with no feeds / wake ups. The age this happens varies massively though - one of my DC was 12 weeks and one was 3 years!

Sleeping through is not waking up for feeds at all. My first didn't do this despite trying everything until the age of 2. My baby is a similar age to yours and I think way too young to try and sleep train. Baby wakes up 2-4 times a night. It's a killer but definitely needs the comfort and feeds at this stage I think. I think it's normal but some unicorn babies will actually sleep through (no wakes!) at this age, just not mine!

You’re overthinking 😂

she’s tiny yet. This won’t last forever, so go with the flow and just do whatever gets you through.

mine woke for a 1am feed until 18m. It was easier to get up, feed, and go back to bed than it was trying to faff around stopping it. That just meant being up for hours instead of minutes. Some people think it’s worth the couple of weeks of no sleep “teaching” them not to wake for feeds, I didn’t.

mine went up to bed when CBeebies finished 😂. They woke at 6, but I preferred having the evening and getting up earlier. It’s a choice again.

it will get better. It will get worse (at weaning when their calorie load drops!). But before you can blink it’s 11am and your teenagers are still asleep 😂

eta the “sleeping through” crap is a throwback to the 70’s and the advice to keep your baby on a strict 4 hourly bottle regime, with no feeds overnight. You were supposed to have them “sleeping through” by 6 weeks, or you weren’t being disciplined enough, rod for your own back etc. my mum still says shit like if you don’t do x or y they’ll never learn. According to her mine should still be waking for feeds and in nappies at night because I didn’t “train” them at 6 weeks/2 years. She also remembers sitting on the stairs letting me cry for hours because I’d woken for a feed and it wasn’t “time” for the next bottle. We learned it wasn’t coming and gave up. I am glad we have moved on.

I have a 4 month old and I'd give my right arm for 6 hours uninterrupted per night!

Sleeping through is just that - sleeping without waking for feeds.

When my 2 were 4 months both were pretty good sleepers in comparison to NCT friends' babies so we were lucky. They would usually go to bed around 7:30/8pm, I'd wake them at 10:30/11 for a feed before I went to bed myself (I preferred to wake/dream feed on my schedule as opposed to them waking me an hour into my sleep) and then they'd wake again at around 5:30/6am maybe for another feed and if it was 6am then we'd be up for the day then. I felt that was a decent amount of sleep for us adults even on a non-baby night tbh (my kids are older now, but I still only really go to sleep around 11/11:30 and sleep till 6am)!

4 months is also sleep regression territory so you just have to ride it out for a while.

Not aggressive, but a bit bemused that you seem to think there's a sleep problem. You honestly don't know how good you've got it.

The thing is, babies don't really care about your ability to cope with sleep deprivation, luckily you've struck gold with a great sleeper - that's amazing. You have only one wake up.

What your are describing is even on a bad night, a 4 hour block, and upto 5 or 6, with a 2 hour block later. So some nights you are getting 8 hours+.

I do find it sad that despite having basically a unicorn baby, you are considering letting them cry themselves to sleep, because it still isn't quite good enough.

If you find you aren't getting enough sleep, then alternate with your partner, or he can do the evening settling and you go to bed at 8, so you can get a full nights sleep in before the wake up.

I have a 4.5 month old baby who often wakes every hour or two at the moment, never less than twice overnight. Please don't sleep train your bub, you've got it great!

Thanks everyone for your responses, it’s been really useful for me.

When you read through stuff on sleep & training, it’s interesting that in the US it’s considered fine to sleep train from 4 months, including some doctors recommending it. I wonder if that’s because parents tend to go back to work earlier than many of their U.K. counterparts, so poor sleep becomes much harder to cope with.

Oh good God please don't sleep train an 18 week old. And please don't go Ferber. It's disgusting. He recommends letting babies cry until they are sick, if necessary, and cleaning them up with no eye contact afterwards. Nice bloke huh?

Yeah in the US there are some fucked up parents doing extinction method I,.e. leaving baby to cry alone for hours at basically any age. They also sell guns to anyone and allow teachers to spank students in the southern states. It's hardly a good model of parenting over there. (Obviously I know not all Americans are the same, but don't take the sleep training bullshit spouted on horrible websites like What to Expect as fact.)

Also if you sleep train a baby who sleeps well like this the only thing you're likely to do is fuck up their attachment and cause separation anxiety so the sleep gets worse. Honestly just try to realise you've got it good right now and get acquainted with reasonable sleep expectations for your baby's age.

Sleeping through is one of those terms that gives mums anxiety. Some will do it from as little as 6-8 weeks, very rare I expect ans others like my dd2 won't do this until 2 and a half, some even older. I think it's really unusual for a baby under the age of 1 to not wake at least once for a feed. I know some do but most will continue to for some time. After the night feeds are removed some children continue to wake through the night for comfort, teething etc. all children are different and I think the aim is to get a couple of hours sleep in disturbed, that seems to be the key to feeling semi able to cope the next day 🫣

Sleeping through means no waking for feeds.

Once mine went from 10pm till 6am I regarded that's as sleeping through.

The US approach may be driven by shorter maternity leaves, however, care there is paediatrician lead and they won’t recommend anything where (actual scientific) evidence suggests it’s harmful. In fact they’re generally much more cautious on infant safety having banned things like sleepyheads, recommending room sharing for 1 year and policies like daycares wanting a doctor’s note to allow a small soft toy at nap time.

Sleep changes at the 4 month mark so you don’t want to do anything before that and you’d probably be wasting your time if you tried. After that, it’s about what suits you and your family. Ferber will be crying but typically works in 3 nights so it’s really not a lot of upset in the greater scheme of things. Other methods like gradual retreat may involve less crying each night but will take longer. Or don’t do anything because you can all cope with the sleep you’re getting. Personal choice really.

Specific to you though OP - I think your baby’s sleep sounds very decent so I’m not sure it’d be worth it for you. I didn’t sleep train mine either and they just gradually increased the big chunk of sleep until it covered all night.