Sleep training for inconsolable high needs 6MO

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Our little one is inexhaustible and will cry for hours without calming. Our lovely, older HV has recommended sleep training as she cam see im at breaking point after 6 solid months of almist no sleep. She was woolly on details of which model to use. We are terrified to ST bc Our little girl is such a needy baby, won't be put down, has absolutely 0 self soothe methods and has never ever put herself to sleep and will purple cry for hours when unhappy.

Please give me details of your success stories and how to achieve better sleep for all of us. I'm in a really dark place and need support to do this

I had a baby like that. It's fucking appalling that your HV has recommended sleep training but given you no advice as to which, nor offered any support, it's all very well to say but likely to leave you feeling even more at sea. I assume reflux etc have all been ruled out? If not, do that first.

Based on my experience, I wouldn't recommend attempting sleep training with such a high needs baby, unless you did one of the very gentle methods. Instead I would consider co-sleeping, sharing the night wakes with someone else (does her Dad live with you?), and waiting it out. Suggested options for sharing: Dad does both nights this weekend, and you get two full nights of sleep. After that, you go to bed early and get a solid 4-5 hours (say 8-midnight or 1am) and he gets his 4-5 hours after you, or he goes to bed early and you do until (say) 2 am and then he does then until he goes to work. The baby is his to, and no job is so important that he should be breaking his wife. Then, during the day, don't focus on how tired you are--that was the only piece of sleep advice I read that actually helped when my first was tiny.

Babies like that haven't read the sleep books, and their advice isn't helpful at all when it is about children so unlike them. I found reading the sleep books and trying their strategies only made things worse, because I felt like a failure, on top of being tired. Some babies are just hard. My second was completely different, and slept well from early on.

Honestly, if it got to that stage with mine I would wean onto formula and sleep train. There is no way of sleep training that doesn't involve a baby crying. But there are ways of sleep training that don't leave babies crying for long periods of time.

You need to be able to function as a human being in your own right, and it's genuinely better for you to be happier and better rested. But yeah, loads of people will come on here and tell you to keep up with the 24/7 attachment stuff.

She's formula fed. How would you sleep train?

Yeah no. I want to die currently and I need to have some space. I have no help and a DH at breaking point too.

And when sleep training fails, which it does with high needs babies like that one, you will want to die more. I've been there. I nearly did die (seriously). This is why you need to sleep in shifts.

It doesn't work. I am so on edge I cannot sleep if she is in the house. Had an hour in 3 days.

There’s a book called the No Cry Sleep Solution which I’ve often seen recommended on here. I haven’t actually read it myself. I imagine it talks about things like gradual retreat.

We did controlled crying (ie going in at intervals) which undoubtedly did involve a whole load of crying but worked very quickly (DD learned to self settle in one blooming day) so not that much crying cumulatively iyswim.

Ok.
This is me 21 years ago.
I'm sorry, op. I vividly remember it :(
A few observations;
You need ads to help you switch off at night. Even a short course of zoplicone
Has your dd been tested for reflux/cmpa?
Cranial osteopathy?
Have you tried co-sleeping? (wish I had!)
Agree re: sleeping in shifts, but you'll need help to relax and sleep initially
Try weaning if no reflux.
I tried every method going...didn't work.
Sometimes I think their bodies/brains just need to mature.
I really feel for you xxx

My baby had colic for the first 3 months which was awful but he settled after that - this sounds like there's something else going on with your little one. Perhaps a dairy allergy? No sleep is absolutely awful, I've been there. Can your DH take the baby out for a walk so you can sleep? Or are you able to pay a postnatal doula/mother's help to come and support you? I really hope you're ok, please contact someone for help and tell them how you're feeling.

Kindly please stop suggesting cmpa. She doesn't have it - she's just hyperactive constantly, I've gone through this on my other thread.

I'm asking for sleep training success stories and methods for high needs babies, not troubleshooting on other issues. I've been the GP and HV more times than I can count, please resist asking me this.

Hi,

I have a high needs baby and have been thrown the reflux/CMPA card etc etc but no one ever got to the bottom of what was wrong. I do think the first few months she had something wrong as she would scream and scream for hours.

Anyway… now she’s 10 months she’s VERY fiesty, high needs, intelligent, but exhausting. Around Christmas I was at breaking point (one of many) but around sleep. I thought, well she screams most of the night and cries anyway so what’s the harm in trying something new? What’s there to lose at this point?

We rocked and held her to sleep till she was 6 months and had no break, no life. I suppose you could say we ‘sleep trained’ we would follow the same routine every night as she loves routine.

We did let her cry a little bit, but would go in, lay her back down, go back out & repeat this process. It seems impossible at first but I thought ‘can it get any worse?!’. First night she fought it and cried for an hour, then the next night less, and the next night less & so on. Now she goes down drowsy and can self soothe. It isn’t perfect and she will wake most nights & sometimes needs a cuddle. But once or twice when youve been used to 45 mins for 6 months… it’s much more doable!

If you have family that might be more impartial/able to help I found that helpful - the crying didn’t upset or stress my Mum out for example. She wasn’t as hormonally/emotionally charged as me, I am just an anger ball when it gets to that point!

With high needs/clever/difficult kids it’s not a one size approach. People can say ‘letting your child cry for 1 minute is abuse’ but they may not have a child that cries for 80% of the day like some of us have!

My girl also screams her head of and is a madam if she’s slightly overtired. We found that finding the sweet spot and getting her down for a nap before she seems tired worked.

Sending love and support! I’ve totally been there and am there on a regular basis tbh. It’s so so difficult & people want to help but end up throwing out daft ideas that just send us over the edge! X

Thank you so much, this has given me hope. I don't need perfection from her, I don't expect her to sleep through. I just want her to be a little less dependent on us.

Can I ask how long you would leave in between checks?

I would wait till a year. Six months is so young. Take turns at sleep and have the other one put earplugs in so it's a proper sleep. It does get better I promise just do what you have to to survive but taking turns is best in my opinion. First half then second half

Tbh, it varies but we don’t let her get overly emotional as (I’m sure you know this well) she just gets in a right tizzy and can’t calm down.

A minute or two in that situation seems ages, but we try not to talk to her, just lay her back down (if she’s standing or sitting in her cot) pat her off sometimes and only ever pick her up if we think she really needs it & it’s been a long time. She’s not a cuddly baby at all either, it’s just in the night if she gets overly upset. I’d see what you can do in a week or two, it’s not going to happen overnight (hard for an impatient person like me!!) but I just kept thinking ‘well, it’s bad anyway so let’s just keep trying’.

Nailing her routine helped me get to know her better and figure her out because before it was just carnage tbh!

She was ill the other week and it all went backwards again so we just had to keep in mind that it worked the first time so it will work again. Putting them down awake/drowsy will pay off in the end. It’s all well & good for insta perfect parents to say ‘hold your child all you want, this time is short’ and ‘enjoy them’ blah blah, but if you can’t sleep, everything is torture and verges on dangerous so I totally get it!! X

Then the problem is your anxiety not her sleep. I also get that, I've been there. But the anxiety is what you need to be talking to the HV about, not her sleep.

I hope that the strategies Baby12747 suggests work for you, but her baby sounds very different to yours. The reason you're not getting the success stories you want to hear is because with babies like ours, there aren't many. Again, sorry to be blunt, but you're WAY better off finding something that actually works than feeling like a failure when something else doesn't

The OP has had an hour of sleep in 3 days she's clearly at breaking point so needs help now not in another 6 months.

If you're on insta OP look search sleep training or gentle sleep training and lots of helpful pages should come up x

I’ve replied in your other thread but I’ll add here: did sleep training at 6 months and have zero regrets. I sometimes wonder if it saved my life. Be very wary of taking moral advice on the topic from anyone who was never desperate enough to consider it.

THIS one million percent. I did ferber with my eldest. Left the house and my DH followed the timings exactly. Mumsnet is awful for this as people will just preach at you not to do it. The reddit sleep training boards are much more helpful

Look at hannah loves training programme, the CALM approach, its a gentle method which i think your LO needs. I would avoid any controlled crying methods if i were you, there will be too much stress involved for everyone.

There's a book or an online course to follow and a Facebook group where you can ask questions and get advice. My 4mo didn't sleep more than an hour at a time (which was awful but sounds better than what you are dealing with). We started the course less than a month ago and he's now only waking twice for a feed on a good night. Note that sleep isn't linear and not to be put off if you have a good night then a bad night etc, don't get discouraged and keep going!

Hi

Please see previous posts, my child cried almost non stop for months & months (she is still v v difficult we’ve just made an improvement with her sleep which helps everyone).

I’m currently in therapy for PTSD and as I’ve covered quite a few times she is a highly intelligent, high needs baby. She needed A LOT to sleep and once we broke that cycle it helped massively. As above though it wasn’t easy but I wanted to give Mum hope, as I have been in that place more often than not and to see instagram posts shaming us for not just ‘holding our baby whilst we can’ isn’t helpful, as how can you do that & get a shower/eat/do chores or most importantly sleep?

It’s not overly helpful to tell someone to sort their anxiety out, when the cause is something truly justified, no sleep is used as a form of torture and sometimes just to be listened to and understood helps.

I hope the OP can find some hope and at least try another option because like I say, what’s the harm in trying if it’s already terrible and the family are at breaking point (like we were). You’ve nothing to lose at that point. X

My toddler was like that. I sleep trained and just wanted to say it didn’t make a difference. It was horrific as he screamed and screamed and I still have huge guilt over it, but all it achieved was him being a me to put himself to sleep, but it didn’t stop the night wakings and the crying overnight. He’s now 3 and still wakes several times a night.

I’m not saying don’t do it - just do your research. It’s sold as the holy grail for sleep deprived parents at the end of their tether, but it doesn’t work for everyone. In fact, I wonder if it was sleep training that caused him to still wake up now wanting reassurance.

There are also very few sleep consultants out there who are actually trained in the area. If you do look to hire someone, make sure they are sufficiently trained and experienced rather than simply having a popular Instagram account.

You sound like you are absolutely at your wits end. We did do some sleep training. We did the "go back in and check" method. So left baby for 2mins. Then for 4mins and you gradually increase the time. I don't think there is a magic number as it will depend on how you cope too.
I would suggest that:

1. You set up a sleep routine if you don't have one. Bath, story etc.
2. Try a gentle sleep training method like the checking one.
3. Take it in turns. I know exactly what you mean about anxiety. Get some anxiety pills from the GP. They will help to balance you. You can't sleep train properly when you are at breaking point. Sleep training can really trigger anxiety!
4. By take it in turns I mean one of you leave the house. Sit in the garden. Sit in your car. Anywhere where you don't hear the screaming. Buy some headphones and blast music. Trust the other parent to deal with it. Do it in shifts.
5. If you are at the point where you want to die, you NEED to see the doctor. Your anxiety will not be helping the baby with relaxing for sleep. If you have to, nap in the car.

You have all of my sympathy

Sending hugs, sleep deprivation is so tough. Ignore anyone telling you not to do it- you do what's best for your family.

We did sleep training at 6 months and it was life changing. We basically did Ferber- put baby down awake then went in after 2 mins to pat/shush for 30 seconds, then went in after 3, 4 then every 5 mins.

We started with first nap on day 1, there was lots of crying for naps that day but that night he only woke once (compared to every 2 hours previously). It took a few days of being really consistent to fully embed it.

There are lots of sleep consultants who can provide plans and 1:1 support if you feel that you need support.

We held out too long with sleep training - wish we'd done it sooner it was so effective. Our baby DD was more of a toddler by the time we cracked (through sleep deprivation) and undertook ST but it was amazingly effective within 2 weeks and now she sleeps well unless she is ill. Prior to that the bedtime routine took 2hrs and she was up for 3 hrs in blocks all night. We used this lady who supported us via calls and WhatsApp's. She may not work for everyone but her methods are gentle (as the name implies) and we're miraculous for us www.gentlesleepnanny.co.uk. Good luck with it!

@Bahy124727 without wanting to derail the thread, you are weirdly overemphasising how 'highly intelligent' and 'clever' you consider your baby to be. It's mentioned in each of your posts, sometimes twice, and really stands out in an odd way. Is there a reason why you want to (unnecessarily) stress your ten month old's perceived intelligence? I've got a 10 month old and I would probably use about 50 words to describe him before I hit on intelligent. Not because he isn't. He might or might not be. But because he is 10 months old. I'm not sure the word would make the top ten of ways to describe my 3 year old either. I would suggest you don't place so much expectation on a small baby (and maybe check yourself for PFB tendencies)

OP, just to turn back to your own posts, what you're going through sounds horrific. I hope you find some help with sleep training advice on the thread, though it is usually a polarising topic on here. At the end of the day though, your health matters too, so whatever you decide, don't be shamed into believing you have to put up with this.