Night wakings

[MummyF04]

my Baby girl is 5 months old and since birth she has always been very clingy. Much prefers sleeping in our arms. Manage to put her down for one sleep a night but for the remainder she wakes up after 10 minutes so I end up with her in my bed. she still only sleeps in 2 hour batches before waking and wanting a feed.
really just need a good nights sleep. I’m on my knees… any advice welcome.

Hi OP

I’m a lurker only - however couldn’t read and run. very strange - this post could have been written by me a week ago - our daughter is exactly the same age with exactly the same preferences…

I love the cuddles, feeding her to sleep, even her in the bed with us but I sort of cracked last week - so so tired.

We went for a ‘Gentle’ sleep training method which initially I was in bits about - worrying if I was damaging her/missing her etc. HOWEVER, she cried for under 20 mins the first night (we obviously went in, reassured, patted etc every few mins) and 5 nights later she slept with one night feed only - today I feel like a new woman!

She’s got it so quickly it’s almost rude 😝and seems happier and more well rested with longer naps (we have had a couple of more difficult naps when we’ve left it too late to put her down, it’s not been complete roses!)

I think moving her into her own room has been really helpful. Obviously this is slightly before the recommended time so you do need to consider around risk of SIDS etc and safe sleep guidance and work out what you are happy with - however we do have the monitor on all the time and she is literally on the other side of the wall.

I was in bits about it, and we are not far enough through to say it’s definitely been great, but I have been really amazed how quickly she has learnt to sleep independently.

Up to you of course but if you’d asked me a week ago where we would be tonight I would never have thought she would have come this far x

I could have written the same thing too. Would you mind telling me more about your sleep training method?

originally basically Ferber, with increasing time periods popping our head in - however the time periods felt too long.

ended up going in if she was really crying (chuntering/moaning ok to leave) every 1, then 2, then 3 minutes, then ongoing every 3 mins. involved patting and shushing for 30 secs and then leaving (calming her down, not aiming to get to sleep that way). If she’s been really fighting a nap have picked up, quick cuddle and put down.

there are lots of examples online, I basically read a few and worked out what didn’t feel too brutal.

no one has to sleep train, and appreciate it’s a modern solution to a modern problem of not having a village! I initially really didn’t want to but I’ve been shocked at how both of us seem happier. X

Hi all,

I hope that you are well? My 6 month old has started to wake in the night. She sleeps for the first part of the night in her moses basket but now wakes a lot. She falls asleep when in my arms and will fall asleep when put back in her basket but then wakes up about 15 mins later. This has happened for about 2 weeks and previous to that she would sleep through the night pretty much. I worry that her falling asleep in my arms is something she has got use to and not in her basket but she does sleep in there when I put her down after her feed

Any advice?

My babies were poor sleepers, I remember vividly how awful it was! I was concerned about the impact of any sleep training that involved leaving the baby to cry, so didn't want to do that (I'm aware that's a view others may disagree with).

What worked for me was a mixture of things - co-sleeping helped a lot (following the safety co-sleeping guidelines) as did really clear communication and turn taking with dp. During the worst spell I used to go to sleep as soon as do got home from work at 6pm and sleep until midnight (unless I needed to feed) and getting a 6 hour block of sleep helped a lot. We took turns having a lie in at weekends to catch up a bit.

My dds sleep now, in fact it's hard to get them out of bed.

It’s pretty normal at this age unfortunately but you will see a big change when baby is on solids. If you breastfeed you can try a bottle of formula before bed. If you can give bottles after your last feed go to bed and get daddy to do the next feed if that’s possible. This should give you a good 4 hour sleep.

I cut down my son’s night feeds to a minute on the breast and then offered water in a bottle at 6 months so he stopped waking up for food and ate more in the day.

Unfortunately babies don’t sleep, this is biologically normal. It is so hard and tough but completely normal.

what has helped me massively this time getting as much knowledge of possible about normal infant sleep and safe co-sleeping. This has been a game changer, as I breastfeed too I never even have to sit up or leave the bed and only awake minutes 1-3 times a night. Baby is 11 months old. We started co-sleeping at 6 months and my only regret is not doing it sooner. All those nights wasted sat up trying to get him in his cot 🤷🏻‍♀️

Sleep training is basically training your baby you won’t come if they cry, not to sleep. I have teens too and they DO eventually sleep and don’t need you anymore. I did cry it out with my first baby - horrendous and yes it did work, until he started teething again/ got ill etc. Never did it again and still regret it to this day. This causes so much stress and isn’t recommended anymore. Even said gentle methods, there is nothing gentle about not responding to your baby's needs, even if it’s to be held.

Try going to bed early and leaving baby with partner is possible so you get the first stretch of the night like PP has said. Also have a look at the happy co-sleeper, this is a great page.

it’s tough but they eventually sleep

Does she sleep in your room when you put her down? My daughter was exactly like this up until 2 weeks ago (she’s 6 months old).
We stopped using the next to me crib and she now sleeps in a cot in her own room. Still not sleeping through, but we are getting 4 hr stretches now not 2. She’s a very light sleeper so any movement on our part would wake her

Aww bless you. It’s not easy is it?

have you thought of general sleep training? My LB was super clingy from a young age and always woke up as soon as he was put down. I got so many comments of how I was spoiling him and how he was a mummy’s boy. Absolutely wound me up no end 😡

I Started a gentle sleep training when he was about 5 months. I took a couple of different methods and just altered them to
suit me. No judgement to anyone that has done cry it out or any other method but I knew I wouldn’t be able to follow through.

Instead what I did was the following:

• started off by putting baby down while still awake at bedtime and sleeping next to baby (baby in next to me and me in bed) and I would hold his hand or have my hand on his bum.
• then would progress to moving my hand away slowly.
• then would move on to leaving the room while he was still awake.
• eventually I could do my normal bedtime routine (song, kiss and put him down) and just leave and he would fall asleep before I made it downstairs.
• now if at any point that he was actually crying I would go in and cuddle or soothe him by patting his bum/holding his hand (whatever was needed). If he was only what I would call slightly whinging then I would see if he would settle himself.
• I also made sure I stuck to a good routine for naps and woke him so he didn’t oversleep and also woke him up in the morning as well. Again no judgement to any other way but this worked best for my LO

He's just over a year and has been an amazing sleeper 7pm to 7am so I can’t complain too much. He occasionally has bad nights when he sleeps poorly but honestly compared to some people I know I really can’t complain. And he hasn’t lost any affection towards me at all 💙💙

if you’re able to pump or if you combi feed you can also get dad to do nighttime routine so you can have some extra sleep. Just make sure you both do the same routine xxx

There’s a regression/brain development thing around that age so they do want more reassurances. The risk of SIDS is slightly higher at that time as the brain starts to adapt the sleep cycles.

so for me I decided it was my baby instinctively looking for protection as when they are with you your breathing helps to regulate theirs at this age. So I split the night with my partner. I did a feed at bedtime (7/8ish) then slept 9-2 in spare room. When baby work for feed at 10ish he gave a bottle. Then we swapped at the next feed. Or 2. And he slept til 7ish. That helped us get through it. I did bed sharing on my part but as I’d already had sleep it wasn’t so bad.

you need to find a way to get a 4hr unbroken stretch to feel human. The other way is partner gets up early eg 5 and takes sleeping baby on to them to hold and you nap until they need to get ready for works so you’ve had some sleep before the day. It’s a brutal time for sleep. Also I tried drowsy but awake but my kid would never. She’s perplexed by it as a concept.

ive had loads of time to read/experiment with different techniques and I genuinely believe kids are born good sleepers or not. But eventually they all sleep and we all think what we did fixed it when actually they get older and sleep well. I know coz I have NOT sleep trained and I now get only one feed over night and long stretches.

I promise you’re in the absolute worst of it but it does get better. Also changing to combi feed at night didn’t change her waking. My kid was hungry over night and fed regardless but jumped growth centiles. So you need to do what’s best for them and if they are hungry over night it’s feeding them.

My older daughter was the same. You don’t say if you’re breastfeeding or not but if bottle feeding get dad to do the last feed and you go to bed early and he can bring baby in much later. I BF so I would use a haakaa or milk collecting shells and collect up 1 or 1oz at each feed from the opposite side so after I fed before bed I’d give her to dad and he would give her the bottle of breast milk when she woke then bring her to bed later. I would put a hot water bottle in her crib while she wasn’t in it (take it out before putting her in) so I transferred to a warm crib which helped a little and because I had effectively slept through a feed she would get a big feed in the middle of the night and sometimes slept 3 then 4 hours which makes a massive difference. I also wore her in a sling during the day so I felt safe snoozing with her on the sofa. Good luck x

The problem is sleep training might only work for a few months until the next sleep regression. And it feels so wrong. I just did co sleeping DC sleeps now he’s older. I let go of the stress of trying to make him sleep which was worse than just the sleep deprivation.

@Isthissleepthingworking the reason why they recommend 6 months in the same room is sids prevention. It helps for the baby to hear your breathing, it reminds them to breathe too. They don't get that from a monitor or through a wall. Risk decreases fast after first few months (peaks about 3 months I think).

Personally 5 months would be too early for sleep training for me, I'd just lean into it, embrace co sleeping, go to bed early, nap with baby in day and sleep train as gently as possible in a few months.

I'm pro sleep training but not that early. People who say it teaches baby that nobody comes is underestimating their child - dd used to ask to go in her cot as she loved it, she'd always call out if she needed us in the night (eg teddy had fallen out) but not just if she woke. She learned that waking in the dark meant she should go back to sleep, those wakings get less wakey and less frequent and they sleep through. Otherwise if they stir in the night and no one is there, they think something is wrong and that they can only sleep with you there.

No completely get that re SIDS - however as you say the risk does start to decrease. My daughter was 5.5 months and a week overdue so moving her into a cot in her room has been a level of risk re SIDS we are happy with. But agree individual decision re this.

I agree to a point re leaning in and just accepting it - however when you have a partner who is out 12/13h a day minimum it is tricky! I’m also having to do some work so the sleep deprivation was tricky with this also.

10 d down the line we are in a position where I am still doing night feeds (1/2), she is usually bed sharing from about 5/6am but it does mean we are all sleeping for longer stretches (and less of a sore back/neck from all night ensuring we are in a safe C shape co sleeping position).

Just to be clear, I’m definitely not advocating leaving a baby to scream, but just more transitioning from a baby who would only sleep in 2/3h chunks when basically latched the whole time.

I think small babies are challenging, and lots of different ways of doing things - firm believer in trying not to be critical of other choices (although I struggled with this at an NCT meetup 6w postpartum where a couple had said they followed a strict method and the baby wasn’t even allowed to fall asleep on them!)

It sounds like she needs to learn how to self soothe, she shouldn't need food every 2 hours, but night sleep cycles are about 2hrs so it seems she is struggling to put herself back to sleep. Sleep training with Ferber was how we got our son to self soothe, we did this at 6 months and we all got so much more and better quality sleep after, took 4 days for no crying at all. It's not for everyone granted. He did still wake for food around 4/5am and did till he was 15 months! But once a night is better than every two hours

Thank you everyone. These are all very helpful and supportive posts.
I do breastfeed so hubby can’t help. She also just screams when he tries to because she wants me. I have been co sleeping for a week or so and it is really helping.

@MummyF04 - I know you say she has been like it since birth, but I also wonder if you are in the thick of the 4 month sleep regression. Around the same age, my daughter’s sleep went absolutely haywire & was similar to what you describe. It went on like that for about 6 weeks-2months. I was beyond exhausted trying to keep up with things until I gave in.

The way I survived was co-sleeping with her on the boob for most of the night.

During the day I would take any opportunity I could to nap. When she was napping I would put her in the fabric sling/carrier, strap her to me & then prop myself half up on the sofa with cushions & nap at the same time. She slept for longer because she was close to me/on me & I could relax for no fear of dropping her whilst sleeping nor rolling over onto her since we were on the sofa. Or sometimes we would both just nap & co-sleep in our bed during the day.

I know it’s hard but just try not to worry about all the other things you need to do & just focus on getting some sleep banked up so you are a bit more rested. It doesn’t feel like it now, but this won’t last forever (I know it feels like forever right now though…). Her sleep will get better in time.

Also, people talking about sleep training - I think she is too young for that right now. You just need to get through this hard part & when things ease up/she is through the regression you can take small gentle steps towards more independent sleep (I.e don’t feed to sleep, have a consistent bed & nap routine, try to put down in cot when drowsy etc.)

We had to work at all the above gradually after the 4 month sleep regression. It started with me lying in bed with her till she fell asleep. Then gradually I would lie with her but distance myself so I wasn’t right next to her. Then I would put her in the ‘next to me cot’ & lay in our bed. Finally she got the hang of it & we could just do the nap/bedtime routine, but her down drowsy in the cot & she would go to sleep without me laying with her.

If you like bedsharing and it’s working for you there is no reason to change anything. Just make sure you know how to do it safely. Check out happycosleeper on Instagram. I had a baby like yours, we ended up side carring a cot bed to our bed to have enough space for the 3 of us. Still bed sharing happily at 22 months. :D

My second daughter was exactly like this, so I feel your pain! I ended up co-sleeping. I bought an Ikea cotbed took one side rail off and fixed it to the side of my bed and then made sure our mattresses were level with no gap between to ensure LO didn’t slip down and get stuck. That way, she had her own safe sleeping area away from pillows/blankets and I could actually get some sleep! It was literally a last resort for me, I was very cautious with the idea for obvious reasons. But it was such a game changer for us, and we never looked back. Shes now 2.5 and sleeps through the night so much better than my first daughter who I sleep trained from 5 months old and was in her own bed and room!

Sending lots of good sleeping vibes your way OP xx

my daughter was the same. I co slept with her. I didn’t bother with a cot when she went into her own room she had a double bed so when she woke I would just lie next to her and she’d go back off to sleep much quicker.
I breastfed her to sleep. I’d disagree with offering formula just as a way of getting them to sleep as it can reduce your supply. I continued to breast feed my daughter and gradually she has slept longer. She now sleeps 7-6 at age 5. I’ve never done any sleep training with her.
it will get better

Hi @MummyF04, how are things going for you now? My baby girl was exactly the same. It was incredibly tough and month 5 to month 9 were very difficult for us sleep-wise. I read an excellent La Leche League book called Sweet Sleep, which really put the bed sharing in perspective for me. My little girl was in our room until 10 months. Much like the previous poster, when bed sharing stopped working for us, we coped by bringing the big cot into our room, taking off one side and pushing it right up to our bed. We made sure the cot mattress was exactly level with ours by raising the cot from underneath, and I pushed the cot mattress tight up against ours on my side so that it would be impossible for baby to become trapped. I then stuffed the gap between the cot and the cot mattress on the other side, with a rolled up beach towel. This was hugely helpful for us as it meant baby felt like she was still in bed with me, but she wasn’t. If bed sharing is working for you then great, but if not I thought I’d share my approach. At 10 months we were able to move her into her own room without an issue, so it doesn’t have to be forever. It is so, so tough when you are sleep deprived and I’m sure at times you feel like the only parent with a baby who doesn’t sleep. I promise you, you’re not and it does end! Well done for making it this far, you are doing brilliantly!

What specific strategies did you find most effective in transitioning your baby from bed sharing to sleeping in her room geometry dash breeze, and how did you manage any challenges during that process?