OK, so he can self-settle, so why won't he sleep?!

[Sufi]

Have been working really hard over past 6 wks to sort DS1's sleeping, using the No Cry methods. After LOTS of trying, he now goes into his cot awake for daytime naps and sleeps for 1-1.5 hours three time a day. Last night he also took himself off the boob at the bedtime feed, I put him into his cot awake and he put himself to sleep.

All good, and I no longer have the cranky baby I used to have - he's all smiles during the day now.

BUT he still wakes every 2 hours (sometimes less) during the night. I don't understand why - he def. doesn't need food and I thought that once he could self-settle that the night wakings would tail off.

I've tried two weeks of refusing to feed him between his dream feed and 4am, as the feed he takes during that time normally is just a few sucks - instead, DP and me have taken it in turns to cuddle, rock and soothe him back to sleep, to try and break the habit/association he has (also recommended in the No Cry book). It's not made a jot of difference - last night he woke at 10.30, 12.30, 2.30, 3.10, 5.10 and was up at 6.30.

I'm back at work (as I'm self-employed) and it's killing both DP and me. DP and I are taking it in turns as far as possible (as I bf, but I express one feed so DP can do one feed).

Does anyone have any advice? I'm feeling so disheartened that after all my hard work it's not made a difference where it counts!! I don't want to use CC and we can't co-sleep, so what can I do?? I tried PU/PD but it just enraged him and I gave up after an hour of trying. Any advice gratefully received!

How old is he?

How old is he?

Dummy ?? Sorry - I know not everyone likes them but if he's waking to comfort suck - it might help ?

Sufi, first of all congratulations on getting results with NCSS
after only 6 weeks - and you are back at work! I respect your stamina.

Regarding settling behaviour, yes, I am afraid we found
that teaching our dd to settle at 7pm did not automatically sort the night wakings.

What you are describing sounds like the classic sleep problem
and there is a well-defined, tried and tested method to solve it.
Which you reject in your OP - no problem, let's move on.

The basic idea is that your intervention should be less and less.
At the moment he relies on you to cuddle/rock/soothe him.
Carry on doing that but with increasing breaks inbetween
where you just sit next to him quietly (with your eyes closed if he can see you).

Yes, it is a massively watered down version of CC
but you won't leave the room and you will still 'be there for him'
when you feel that he is getting to worked up.

Best of luck

Sorry, DS is 5 mo!

Tilly - Tried a dummy but he doesn't like it and can't keep it in his mouth (I have to hold it in!) - think cos I introduced it quite late on.

DaddyJ - I don't think I can do CC as he's only 5 mo and all the research seems to point towards it being harmful or at least not beneficial until at least 12 mo - if we're still having problems then I would give it a go at that point, I think.

I'm not sure how not to intervene, as if I leave him at all he screams and screams and gets really wound up, even if I stroke his head, put the dummy in, or just sit where he can see me. And the strange thing is that the more upset he gets, the less time he actually sleeps for when he does finally go to sleep..

Yup, that's exactly what our dd would do.
Maybe the fact that he is not getting any food during the
night will help him gradually realise that night time is for sleeping.

It might be that all he needs is a bit more time.
After all, he has responded well to NCSS in a fairly short amount of time.

If you do get desperate and want to review the CC option
I am happy to put your mind at rest with plenty of evidence that the arbitrary 12 month
thing has been invented by people with an agenda - and very little else.
Even Dr. Sears (who does not agree with it) says you can do the crying thing
from 6 months onwards.

I think from babies' points of view, it makes sense that they will not sleep as soundly if they're left to get upset. I half heartedly tried leaving my dd to cry a few times and it just seemed to really unsettle her and almost make her scared of going to sleep (presumably she was concerned I wouldn't be coming to get her )

Any chance he might be waking because of teething pain ? Maybe try Calpol if there are any other symptoms

You have my sympathy - my dd is and has always been a fairly rubbish sleeper. She self settles but even at 11 months, still wakes once or twice a night (although a quick stroke of head or 1 minute cuddle will usually do the trick now). I know it doesn't help on a practical level, but it did help me psychologically to accept that some babies are just bad at sleeping - its nothing we're doing "wrong" as parents

5 mo and 9 mo - for many babies, these seem to be just about the worst times for sleep. Check out the old threads - there's loads of them.

DD definitely was waking every 2 hours at 5 mo and she has been able to self-settle by sucking her fingers since she was 6 weeks old. At 4 1/2 months she was doing just that! At 5 mo, she discovered she could 'walk' by holding onto my hands and moving her feet, and I swear to God, she hasn't slept for more than 4 hours on more than 4 occasions since then. It's an absolute bugger isn't it? Fortunately, I can co-sleep with her so I can get through it and I have no other advice other than it passes. Well, it did with DS and he was even worse!

Some babies still need food in the night at 5 months - are you sure he's not hungry? And I don't want this to descend into a CC/NonCC thread - but I want to say - before I shut up - you ABSOLUTELY must follow your instincts on this.

he's definitely not hungry - when he is, he cries inconsolably (i never leave him, BTW, but he can be sat on my lap all smiles one minute and screaming the place down the next when hunger strikes!)

the fact that he will be held/cuddled back to sleep indicates he's not really hungry. and he only feeds every 3-4 hrs during the day, and can wake up as frequently as every hour, so it can't be hunger. i've no problem feeding him at night, just not every 1-2 hours!

corrie- it's been going on since he was 10wks old! i've ruled out growth spurts, illness, tried calpol in case it now is teething, but nothing makes a difference. aarggh.

tilly - yes, you may be right. he's a just rubbish sleeper i guess - just wondering what on earth i do next...

and seeker/daddyj - no, don't want to talk about cc/non cc either but my gut feeling is that cc is a real last resort, as he's very, very stubborn (like me) and i really do think at this stage it'll just wind him up and he'll get worse not better.

Hi Sufi, have you thought about taking him to see a chiropractor or cranial osteopath - sounds like something is waking him up - if he can settle himself to sleep from being wide awake. I would think that once a baby can self settle then the night wakings would def tail off except if waking for food. We took DS2 to a chiropractor specialising in babies and she really helped his sleep - he had a jammed neck from a ventouse delivery and therefore was very uncomfortable when lying in his cot - he used to wake up every hour or so during the night and it was killing me. HTH

Will try the chiropracter route, I think - thanks!

Satrlight: I realise this won't go on forever, but, for me, five months of not getting more than 2 hours' sleep in a row is killing me and impairing my ability to be a good mother - I enjoy our days together less because I'm so tired, and it's making me depressed and resentful. hat may make me a bad mother but I have to be realistic - I don't have endless reserves of energy and I just can't function on the amount of sleep I am getting. I have been so, so patient and I don't mind feeding him at night, just not every 1-2 hours. I don't want to be in this position for another 6 months. I know lots of mums on here manage it and are happy to, but I honestly don't know how they do it. I love my son to bits but need to see some light at the end of this tunnel!

Hmmmm, I manage to keep going but I wouldn't say I was happy about the sleep situation. I'd night-wean DD if I honestly thought it would do any good but I suspect the only thing that is really going to work is for her learn to walk and get herself properly knackered AND no longer frustrated about not being able to walk. That's what did the trick with DS, and in the meantime, giving her a feed is the quickest way of me getting back to sleep. And I also go to bed at 9ish. Which is crap and makes me feel like my life consists of bed and babies, but at least I can semi-function the next day.

sorry, didn't mean to be short, just struggling again - i have good days when i think i can handle it and bad days when i think i just can't go on

yes, will try your suggestion - had been doing something similar but then DP got flu and i haven't pushed it since as he's having a hard time at work.

thanks xx

I remember when DD was a newborn, I was going to bed at 7pm - i.e. when she did! - so as to maximise the amount of sleep I got. I really didn't think that I'd be staying up a mere extra two hours 9 months later.

The other thing we do, is I do the nights, and DH takes over at 6am ish (sometimes earlier if I'm desperate), so that I can get another couple of hours in. We do this on Saturdays and generally a couple of other days in the week. Don't know how I'd survive without it. Can you do that, do you think?

Hey,

my DS is the same although he is still a rubbish napper. Up all hours of the night - I am also using the NCSS. I have had some success in that it now takes me about 20 minutes to re-settle him on average rather than the hour it did before but he can't self settle yet.

I do what someone else suggested sometimes - I put DS to bed then go to bed myself. My DH takes over till midnight and just goes in and rocks him back to sleep and then I take over when he comes to bed.

I hope that things get better for us both soon!

Hi,

My ds (5 month) is just the same with the night wakings! No tips as nothing seems to be working for me. It's a bummer isn't it?

....Stefka, I have been watching your posts with interest too and just wanted to say to you also that you have my sympathy.

I have just started weaning ds so let's see if that helps (or hinders!!)

stefka and hillbilly - you have my every sympathy! at least it's nice to know we're not alone.

has dreadful night last night when DS seemed to 'unlearn' all the NCSS lessons and he's had (late) vaccinations today which means i've got a night of hell ahead (his reaction to jabs is to be perfectly fine all day but then be up every 30-60 mins at night for at least 2 nights). we shall see...

DP on for taking 'shifts' so that should restore my sanity a bit

god, i wish i had one of those mythical babies who sleep... or that there was some magic cure for those that don't.

good luck tonight everyone xx

Sufi & Stefka, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

DS is my second child and my DD was pretty much the same at this age. At around 7 months I did some minor sleep training (PU/PD) and she turned in a fantastic sleeper. She is now 2.9 and has a 2 hr lunchtime nap still and sleeps at least 11 hrs at night.

So I am hoping that ds will follow in the same way!

Good luck for tonight!